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Balancing the electricity grid - a guide

Balancing the electricity grid - a guide
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Taj
Carbon Catcher*
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  • May 4, 2024

Thank you @Transparent that’s an excellent tutorial though tending to go over my head in places.

I’m aware that Kaluza will pick the best period to charge, but what does it do in the following situation. Today the OVO app shows 9am to 4pm as a green time with the ESO reporting 96 to 110gCO2/Kwh. However, my area is currently shown as 247gCO2/Kwh(High). Does it take account of locality.

It is possible that tonight, though shown as yellow on Ovos forecast might be the better time in my locality. Kaluza can’t advise me to come back tonight. Do you know of any sites with regional forecasting. Like the ESO map, but looking forward a few hours.


Blastoise186
Plan Zero Hero
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  • May 4, 2024

Apologies @Taj , but Transparent is no longer active on the OVO Forum as he’s moved on to other things.

I’ll see if someone else can advise, otherwise I’ll try to find the answer from Forum resources.


BPLightlog
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  • May 4, 2024

There’s a National Grid app called ‘When to Plug in’ which might be useful for your needs. 
There’s quite an art to emission forecasting of course but there are a few sources to help 


Taj
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Thank you @BPLightlog, @Blastoise186 I’ll give it a try. My apologies, I shouldn’t have used an old post.


Blastoise186
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No worries - it’s totally fine to dig up an old thread like this as long as it’s for a legitimate reason. My judgement is that you do have a legitimate reason because you wanted to ask a (really good!) question about something in this thread, so you’re good. :)

If you’d done it purely to spam us with stupid junk, that would get you punished, but legit follow-up questions are definitely not spam!

One of my contacts has just seen this thread and has agreed to give advice. Like many of my industry contacts, this one prefers to remain anonymous however, so the arrangement is they’ll route their words through me so that you’re able to get the answer you’re after while my contact gets to stay in the shadows.

Please bear with me for a bit! I’m still talking with my contact so we can draft the response - I should have it ready in an hour or two. But I think you’ll like it. :)


BPLightlog
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Taj wrote:

Thank you @BPLightlog@Blastoise186 I’ll give it a try. My apologies, I shouldn’t have used an old post.

There’s also a dataset from the UK authority (NGC) which is less graphical but depending on your need, data rich 


Blastoise186
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Ok, here’s the full answer from my contact - these are their words rather than mine.

This is called Nodal Pricing, whereby the price per unit differs according to your location in the country.
DESNZ staff created an over-complex strategy to implement this whilst not upsetting companies in the energy sector.
That was rejected by Rt Hon Claire Coutinho, Secretary of State for DESNZ in an announcement on 12th March.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/energy-secretary-takes-action-to-reinforce-uk-energy-supply

See the comments from industry leaders at the bottom of the page. It will save you having to read the main document.

This is a mess. I think she intended rejecting the proposed complex implementation, but has appeared to have ruled out the entire concept of nodal pricing instead. :(

Taj won't find a national Energy Supplier who can offer Nodal Pricing because none of them would be prepared to spend programmer time adding such a feature into their Billing Systems, whilst Ofgem isn't requiring it.

The low-price low-carbon periods being offered by OVO (and others) are based on the wholesale market. It depends where the electricity is being generated which OVO is buying. So if they have a contract with a wind-turbine array in West Wales, and that's producing lots of output, then OVO can lower their price because they're buying-in cheaper electrons.

They can also declare a lower CO2 level of course, so it has a 'feel good' factor.

It has nothing to do with where the consumers are living... and that's why it shouldn't be called Nodal Pricing. It's merely a paper exercise done behind the scenes.
To allow such a situation to continue, means that the overall cost of electricity (especially Standing Charges) must remain high because we need lots more grid infrastructure to move the electricity around.

True Nodal pricing is when the consumer is located in or close to the location of the generation.


BPLightlog
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Just re-reading your question @Taj it’s worth saying that the way the OVO offer works is by charging at the green-est times chosen by comparing to the ‘charge by’ time set. So it’s not all about only charging at so called ‘green’ times as that would be rather hit and miss. 
The data links I gave earlier have some regional variations and these are linked to the nearest generation point to your location. 
Many do look to predict low emission slots as these affect the wholesale pricing and some suppliers do offer tariffs based on this. Here is the view I can see now based on my location. 

 


Taj
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  • May 5, 2024

Thank you @BPLightlog, @Blastoise186 and your contact. I think you’ve given me plenty to chew on. 

@BPLightlog my interest was really in trying maximise the effectiveness of Kaluza. I had the impression it was not just a green period picker, but a sort of load management device(picture battery storage in reverse). So my jumping in on purely green slots would be counterproductive.

Anyway, thank you, it looks like I’ve got a lot of reading to do.


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