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What Power Cut? A few thoughts.

  • February 14, 2025
  • 8 replies
  • 325 views

Nukecad
Plan Zero Hero

At 19.44 tonight we had a power cut here.

Looking out the windows front and back over the town everything was off supply - and I only noticed because my house phone beeped and the screen lit up as mains power was removed.

I was on my laptop so the battery took over seamlessly, I was watching video off a USB stick so wouldn't even have noticed the wifi dropping out, and the only light I had on was my rechargable wall lamp.

At 19:51 Electricity North West 'Extra Care' sent a text that said it was cable damage and that 3186 properties were affected, they were sending engineers, and expected power to be restored by 22.44.

At 20.01 ENW also rang my mobile with an automated message saying the same.
10/10 for 'Extra Care' giving information by different methods, but that needs a rethink.

I understand that the voice call is meant to call a landline phone if you don’t have a mobile phone so can’t get a text.
Unfortunately everyone is having to change to ‘Digital Voice’ VOIP phones - which stop working if your landline internet is down because there is no power to your router/hub.
That’s also a concern for making emergency 999 calls during a power cut.

At 20.02 I got another text saying that "A team is on the way to assess the damage", but…
At 20.04 the power came back on and has been on since.

EDIT- At 21.25 I got a further text saying that power had now been restored to all customers and to check all tripswitches, clocks, timers, etc.

However it got me thinking… It isn’t that long ago that a power cut was a mini-disaster with scrabbling about for torches and then for batteries to put in them (or even for candles), no idea of how long the power was likely to be off, and no way to find out.

Nowadays then, like me, you may not even notice it for a while, and when you do then you probably have a smartphone that is still working (unless the masts have run out of battery backup) so can jump on the internet for information and updates.

The situation with everyone changing their landline phones to ‘Digital Voice’ phones that won’t work during a power cut is another problem that currently does not appear to have any practical solution.
The ‘official’ thinking seems to be that it will be OK because everyone has access to a mobile (no they don’t) and the masts have power backups (batteries which will run out if/when the mains is off for more than a few hours).

It’s not just 999 calls that it affects either, medical alert and telephone care systems such as careline rely on landlines which during a power cut will not be working over Digital Voice in a power cut*, just when they are needed.
Automatic ‘call the station’ burglar and fire alarms would work over the old landlines even when mains electricity was off, not over Digital Voice though.

*Unless those alert systems are provided with battery backup like a computers Uninterruptible Power Supply, and at the moment if you want a UPS then you will have to buy one yourself (although after some pushing from welfare organisations there may possibly be free UPS’s available for some vulnerable customers sometime in the future)

8 replies

juliamc
Carbon Catcher***
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  • Carbon Catcher***
  • 1258 replies
  • February 14, 2025

We had a power cut one evening a while ago. I have a GivEnergy battery (which still had some charge in it) with a “gateway“ which switches the house automatically to battery power, so I only knew about the power cut when my house phone rang and a robotic voice told me. I got the call as we’re on the priority services register.
It’s a seamless change from grid to battery which is all very well, but without notification I’d have just run the battery down with either heating/kettle etc. Another first world problem. So still a bit of fine tuning needed with all this tech.

 


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 100 replies
  • February 14, 2025

I know that BT can provide landline phone with a SIM card and a battery for those who rely only on landline. Also, they suggest alternative solutions for other services running through the copper landline.
I agree with you, they shouldn’t remove it. After the update error which caused chaos at airports around the world not that long ago, I’m not sure that we are ready to exclusively be an internet-related world. 


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  • Carbon Cutter*****
  • 24 replies
  • February 15, 2025

I spoke with our provider (Sky) about fibre replacing copper and the affect it will have on emergency and medical capacity in a power cut when there is no mobile capability. 

We are in a mobile not-spot, but our AIO provides failover capability powering the router in a power outage. 

Sky's view is that copper will remain until a permanent solution is implemented which seems to be, improve the mobile signal and provide a mobile solution to all affected through free handsets and SIMs. 

Their view is that we will not be forced to transition to fibre and that copper and fibre will run side by side for the foreseeable future.

 


Nukecad
Plan Zero Hero
  • Author
  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 761 replies
  • February 15, 2025

Whilst it is true that copper cables aren’t dissapearing that isn’t the real issue, in fact it’s a bit of a red herring.

Many people have ‘Fibre to the Cabinet’ broadband (FTTC) that still uses copper cable from the green boxes to the house, it’s the signal that is sent along those cables that is changing.

The old phone system is analogue, the system replacing it is digital.
That replacement is due to be completed ‘for most’ by 2027.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines

Both systems digital and analogue can travel down the same cables and currently often do, broadband and analogue phone signals come side-by-side down the same cables, which is why you have a filter box plugged into or built into your landline master socket. (Once you switch to Digital Voice then technically you no longer need that filter).

And yes providers are being very quick to reassure you that ‘solutions’ can be put in place to mitigate the potential problems that have been forseen for vulnerable customers etc.
There has been lots of discussion, and 2-charters are now in place.
2-charters that basically wipe their hands of the whole problem.

 https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/public-switched-telephone-network-charter/public-switched-telephone-network-charter

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/network-operator-charter/network-operator-charter

That second charter is particularly telling - It states (in weasely wording) that it is up to the Telecare service providers to come up with a solution and to pay for it.
To state clearly
(no weasle words) what that means -
The phone service provider(s) won’t be providing any solution to the power cut problem.

As I said above it is currently being left to worried customers to devise and pay for, their own solutions.

 


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  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 16 replies
  • February 15, 2025

Where i live in the east midlands, power cuts happen maybe twice a year, on top of that our town`s water is pressurised using pumps and these fail around 4 times a year, so with no power it all goes wrong ☹️. My house is around 800m from are local exchange and is on fiber 150, it is fed by a dual fiber/copper cable from the pole in my crescent and was replaced as a part of the transition to fiber only, when i spoke to the installer he said the standard two wires analog system will be active for the time being and I still use the analog socket for my landline. In the absence of power and the failure of the land line/fiber communications my mobile phone steps in as my emergency device.


juliamc
Carbon Catcher***
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  • Carbon Catcher***
  • 1258 replies
  • February 15, 2025

@mikes01666 it’s great to have the AIO (GivEnergy All In One) but unless it’s got some reasonable charge left in it when the power cut happens it’s not much use, though can be topped up with solar if that’s possible. Over the winter I run my battery right down to 4% every day. We could stop using the battery for heavy use eg heating if we knew there was a power cut, but as the switch is seamless we have no way of knowing to do that.


  • Carbon Cutter**
  • 100 replies
  • February 15, 2025
Nukecad wrote:

 

Many people have ‘Fibre to the Cabinet’ broadband (FTTC) that still uses copper cable from the green boxes to the house, it’s the signal that is sent along those cables that is changing.

The old phone system is analogue, the system replacing it is digital.
That replacement is due to be completed ‘for most’ by 2027.
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/uk-transition-from-analogue-to-digital-landlines

Both systems digital and analogue can travel down the same cables and currently often do, broadband and analogue phone signals come side-by-side down the same cables, which is why you have a filter box plugged into or built into your landline master socket. (Once you switch to Digital Voice then technically you no longer need that filter).

 

I know that BT doesn’t connect to the old analogue landline its new customers. It will be old copper phone socket to which is connected your internet, and to the internet will be connected your Digital Voice (I dislike the name and the whole situation). We don’t have fibre in the area. Should we ensure that we have the fibre connection (real one) to the most houses in the UK and then make that switch?


Blastoise186
Plan Zero Hero
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  • Plan Zero Hero
  • 7890 replies
  • February 15, 2025

By being put onto Fibre at all, BT will kick you over to Digital Voice now, even on FTTC.


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