Is my PAYG meter impacted by the RTS shutdown?

Hi ​@Vreid92 ,

I can’t confirm whether this unit is an RTS Meter or not as the records aren’t available to me. However, it IS a Five-Terminal Multi-Rate Meter so it must be supporting some kind of Complex Tariff. It also appears to have a 2A Relay so it could also be controlling something else…

To tell you more about it though, I need a clearer image.

With that being said, your Meter is reaching End of Service Life as it’s only Certified for 20 years - making September 2027 the expiry date for it. I’d recommend you get it replaced with Smart Meters anyway at a convenient time.

Hi. They have said we cant get a smart meter due to restriction on our property as no signal..they cant give a traditional THTC meter as they are for emergencies and then told me I cant have Economy 10 or 7 as id need to be able to set charge times on my electric heaters but then changed their mind and decided they could, but we are paying a fortune, between £600-£750 a month in winter and our heaters are only on a few hours in morning and night and we only have them set at 19 degrees so not taking the mick... We have new dimplex heaters. We can set charge times on our bigger heaters but not bedroom panel heaters or bathroom..What can i take pictures of to give you a clearer picture? I did ask what happens when RTS shuts down in June and I cant get switched to something else..they couldnt answer!!

A THTC system usually requires two meters, one for the peak rate domestic usage and switched storage heaters/hot water, the other for a 24-hour heating circuit. You don’t appear to have this sort of arrangement. The switched circuit can be controlled by a radio teleswitch managed by the electricity distributor (SSEN), but it doesn’t have to be. Unless you have a box somewhere labelled Radio Teleswitch or similar, it’s most likely that power supply to storage heaters during the offpeak period is controlled by a clock inside the meter itself. So, if this is your only meter and there’s no RTS box nearby, it should be quite possible to exchange it for a smart meter. 

The problem may be that SSE’s records of the millions of installations it was supplying were not completely accurate, but these are the records that OVO has to rely on. It could be that your system was wrongly classified as THTC and/or RTS, which will influence OVO’s response to support requests.  

The meter in the picture is the only one we have, it has the 2 rates on it. And then there is that black box which has stickers on it with old meter reading from previous meters it has been connected to, and it appears to be a fuse box? 100amp fuse. We have 2 fuse boxes for appliances/heating, one which has heaters & hot water and the other is for the lights, sockets etc. Our rates shown on our meter dont even match the rates that OVO have said are for THTC. They are saying that they cant fit a smart meter due to no signal in the area and there is a restriction on my area..but others have moved supplier and have smart meters fitted no problem. Its costing so much, even in summer with no heating on, we are around £200, winter is between £600-£750, heaters are only on for a couple of hours morning and evening for the kids, which makes me think there is something just not right. Have came across plenty of people with new electric heating systems and its costing nowhere near that.

Thank you for your help!😊

What images do you need and I can take some clearer pictures tomorrow? 

It seems to be an awful lot of money considering these dimplex storage heaters are supposed to be 27% more energy efficient🙈.

Thank you for your help! 

I’m no expert, but I think that is the service head, the end of SSEN’s cable into the house. It consists of a cut-out with a big fuse designed to stop the supply if something goes catastrophically wrong in the house. It’s a bit unusual because in most installations, the main cable comes up to the service head, with the onward supply coming from the top. Your main cable comes down, so the box is a bit shorter and wider than usual to accommodate the three cables.

Again, I’m speculating. You didn’t say where you are in the country, so you may well be in what is called a Load Managed Area (LMA), where the DNO (the electricity distributor, in your case SSEN) can shift load away from some properties to supply others if the local network can’t temporarily satisfy the total demand in that area. This would use the Radio Teleswitch Service (RTS) which your system doesn’t appear to use. OVO haven’t yet worked out precisely how to handle THTC systems in LMAs, but that shouldn’t be a problem in your case. There are ways of helping by means of smart meters, e.g. by arranging for meters in the LMA to switch heavy loads like storage heaters on and off at staggered times.

The fact that there’s no signal shouldn’t nowadays preclude installing a smart meter. Normally, after the meter has been installed, its final configuration is done remotely while the engineer is on site. OVO has been working around the problem of no signal by pre-configuring meters for Economy 7 to switch the offpeak load on and off at the appropriate times. 

Last, it’s not easy to establish the life of a meter like yours. Other similar Landis + Gyr meters (with model numbers starting with Z) are only certified for 10 years, so if this applies to yours, it’s well overdue for replacement. 

I would suggest, then, that you get in touch with OVO Support again and ask what the restriction is, pointing out that:

• Your meter’s certification appears to have expired eight years ago, so OVO are bound to exchange it.
• You don’t have an RTS-controlled system;
• You understand it’s quite possible to install a pre-configured smart meter even though they think there’s no WAN (Wide Area Network) signal where you live. Some of your neighbours on the same street have had smart meters installed;
    

It might be more effective to do this over webchat, so you can get a written record of the conversation. If they try to fob you off again, ask if you could be put in touch with the Smart team who would understand the technicalities.

Good luck!

PS If and when you reply, please say where you are - the first bit of your postcode is enough to nail down what should be available to you.

We are in AB45 area. I will get onto the chat today, im due to talk to the handler from the Energy Ombudsman today so I will make sure I mention all of this. 

Good idea with the webchat! As iv noticed previously they say things over the phone and its totally different to what they say in writing, or make a point of phoning when you specify for everything to be done via email just so that there is no record.

I wish I had joined this forum before!

Honestly, thanks so much for your help! Its really appreciated.

Forgot to add, he mentioned to me on the phone about a 'dummysmart meter' but then came back and said there was no signal in the area and the smart meter would need signal to program even if it were a dummy meter so it wasnt possible, i just want to be able to pay monthly or pay online with a smart meter so as im not going to the shop constantly in winter months riskin lives when the weather is bad, but they just dont seem to get it!

I wonder if our resident expert ​@Lukepeniket_OVO has time to read this thread and have any comments on what Mr Reid in Banff is being told, bearing in mind:

• Meter certification possibly expired
• No RTS
• Neighbours with working smart meters
• Keen to move off PAYG

Hey ​@Lukepeniket_OVO , got one for ya!

Hey all,

Looking at the diagram on the front of the existing meter it does indeed look like a 5 terminal meter, initially I believed it to be a dual element meter but I don't now think this is the case. 

If you are in a LMA area we currently cannot conduct these installs within OVO, I do not know about other suppliers. Very soon we are going to pilot to be able to install in LMA areas.

​@Vreid92 do you ever hear a clunking sound from the meter throughout the day or just once nightly? About midnight?

What type of meter do you think it could be? Is a THTC meter a 5 terminal? Im so clueless on these types of things! 

There has been alot of work being done at the electricity poles around our area, unsure if this is anything to do with it or not?

I have never heard any clunking atall, but it is very rare we are still awake at midnight anyway and our electricity cupboard is downstairs and we are in a back bedroom so probably wouldnt hear it. I will make a point of staying up this weekend to see if I can hear anything.

Thank you for your help!

Oh yeah, I guess I forgot to tell you about our Sekrit Weapon. Luke is one of OVO’s most powerful Smart Meter Engineers - and he’s amazing at the job too! We call on his advice if we get badly stuck ourselves. You should see what he’s been able to pull off! :)

Everything I’ve found so far suggests that particular unit is more likely to be running on either Economy 7 or Economy 10.

Honestly I cant thank you all enough! Why oh why did i not join this forum sooner🙈 nobody has even requested photos of my meter or as much as offered to come out and assess. 

So my next question is...if there is no RTS box and this meter is possibly economy 10 or 7..does that mean that because the charge times on the big heaters are set from 00:00-00:00 for each charge cycle. They could possibly be charging during peak time? Does £600-£750 a month seem right to you for a couple of hours morning and night of timer being set to be on? My heaters are mostly set at 19-20 aswell so not even taking the mick with temperatures.

Thanks a bunch😁

​@Vreid92. Very unlikely to be a THTC setup as there is only 1 meter. 

There is many Economy setups, E7, E8 E9 E10 and Evening weekend. I doubt itll be E/W but im unsure of what it could be at all. this should be relevant on your online account. 

E7 times would be 0000-0700 (Ish)
E10 is multiple times throughout the day, 0000-0500, 1400-1700 (Unsure) and 2000-2200.

I dont know the timings for the other systems.

I would have to have a look at any consumer units and heaters you have to advise you on how to use them.

Hope this helps??

Its funny you say that, because I tried to make an online account and it wouldnt allow me to, when i queried it with complaints handler, he said I cant have an online account when you are PAYG. But when you type my address into OVO..it says Economy 7..its strange, because when im queried other companies before and given them my address they have said 'sorry you have two meters at your address, you have a complex system, we cant take you on' im pulling my hair out saying WE DONT HAVE 2 METERS, but its still registered as having 2 meters. 

I contemplated setting charge times to E7 and then try another day for E10 just to see out of curiosity what the price difference was..i will send a picture of my bigger heaters. I know the panels & bathrooms are only wired to 24hr off peak supply. 

Thank you!

​@Vreid92 no my mistake, you are paygo so won't have an online account. I'm trying to remember if you can see switching times on the meter, we used to issue keys with certain tariffs... I'll pass the MSN onto the paygo team to try and get clarity??

Thank you! I know I can definetly set charge times on my big heaters(dont even know what they are called🤣) so maybe worth a try. Its alot of money considering we are not being silly with the amount of time we have them on and the temperatures. I was looking back my meter reading pictures from when we moved here in March 2021. We have topped up £14,199 since then..absolute madness🙈 I did send in photos, unsure if you got them? Im not sure if they need to be approved or not.

There is something really not adding up here, my Off peak meter reading on 1st March 2021 was 71942.15 today..it is reading lower ALOT lower at 2326.64 i thought the reading should rise? Not fall? My peak was 44771.05 on 1st March 2021 and today it is 70245.75. Doesnt make sense atall? 

Also, whilst we are on the subject of the heaters..i was told that the 'off peak' switch should only be lit up when charging on off peak and the boost lit up all the time..my off peak switches on every single one of my big heaters is orange all the time, day and night. It never goes off.

Something amok. 

Can you attach photos here of 1 of your heaters and your consumer unit (fuse board) connected to the far right hand cable??

I think this is the fuse board you mean?

https://assets.cef.co.uk/downloads/pdg/dimplex_quantumg6_instructions/dimplex_quantumg6_instructions.pdf

There should be two switches near the heater, one is off peak one is on peak. The 24hour supply should be connected to your boost switch and the other should only be lit when the off pean supply is energised at appropriate times. This is where we need to find your timings.

Is your meters screen blank? I can't see any figures on the pic provided?  There should be screens also detailing rate 1 and rate 2 unit price.

I believe h is rate 1 reading with I being the rate, J is rate 2 reading with K being the rate? Sorry for being rusty it has been a while since I've read a 2 rate read (not out installing as much any more).

Can you see these rates?

​@Vreid92 yeah that photo is lovely, shows me the fuseboard with both off peak and on peak circuits.

Only the heaters on the right hand part of this board will be being controlled by the off peak supply!!

On the left hand side of the fuseboard the ones marked 'Panel' are heaters without a off peak supply and thus always on!

To maximise efficiency I would turn all 'boosts' and panels off of the wall and only utilise them when you need to top up the heat in the property.

You will need to experiment with the water tank but you should make the most of the hot water tank by heating it up using the off peak supply, the off peak heater can be identified on the tank by looking for the cable which goes to the lowest part of the tank, that cable will be connected to a switch on the wall which you should leave on. I'd turn the other switch off and experiment to see if the hot water the next day is hot enough for you to use.

Appreciate its a lot of info but if everything is on all the time it beats the point of having an off peak supply