Power Move vs Economy 7

Sorry @SteveCoach but I disagree. Economy 7 does nothing to reduce peak energy usage. It encourages overnight use, agreed but the issue we have in energy generation are the emissions from generating plant when ‘everyone’ switches on around 4pm and this peak extends until 7pm (actually often after 7pm).

E7 coupled with power move would make much more sense

Yes Economy 7 should be incentivised by prices for BOTH Day (including peak hours) and night usage.  Washing Machines, Dishwashers, Slow Cookers, Fridges, Freezers and any other appliances run at night would be cheaper.  Plus EV charging if not on an EV rate.  OK cooking the evening meal would be a problem but I guess the network can cope with that!

Economy 7 cannot be modified unfortunately. It’s not up to OVO to do that and erm… There’s the small matter of several million Meter Points that such changes would effect. How exactly are you going to reprogram the tens of thousands of still active legacy Traditional E7 Meters to support this for example? Or the HUNDREDS of thousands of Traditional Non-E7 Meters still in service?

And that’s before I really dig into the faults with this...

Yes traditional meters would be a problem.  Smart meters should be able to be adjusted by the power company or they are not very Smart! Perhaps more public info and “financial incentives” to use Economy 7 is what is needed to get people to use night time power.

Current Daty rates are a penalty and night rates are not cheap enough to be an incentive for those with no storage heaters.

All I am suggesting s that OFGEM and the suppliers do some Blue Sky thinking on this subject. The last time schemes like Power Move were used they were scammed and many made money from them by maximising their usage BEFORE the times to fool the system. FACT -

tbh all that would do is move the problem from daytime to night-time.

If literally the entire country shifts it’s usage to Economy 7 hours, there won’t be cheap Economy 7 rates. You’d instead create Economy 17. :(

That’s not going to solve anything unfortunately. It just covers up the real issue and makes it worse.

So the aim succeeded and people used less during peak - some possibly used more off peak but that’s missing the point. The vast majority of the initiatives being tested are all about reducing carbon emissions, which is not the same as reducing energy usage .. that test will arrive when more people get EV’s and the infrastructure will struggle to cope. 
I actually think that OVO’s Charge Anytime is a good example of a company using technology to benefit the environment by providing a system which automatically uses green energy slots to charge EV’s

Well you either need off-peak usage or not.  You can’t have t both ways!!

I seem to remember that the idea of rewarding customers who used less energy in the high-peak period arose as plans for controlled blackouts were being prepared before last winter. Cuts would have been used to limit peak demand at a time when energy supplies were precarious and storage capacity inadequate. 

It’s a bonus that the incentive reduces our dependence on fossil-fuelled electricity generation, but clearly a bonus worth paying for. 

SteveCoach Are you taking part in power move?

If not how have you deduced that it is 'nonsense.'

There are plenty of us who think that it is a good initiative, which if linked to an overall policy of trying to save energy is well worth doing.

Now what isn't a good idea is if Power Move is played like a game where shed loads of lecky are used during the day just so that people can get their grubby mitts on a tenner at the end of the month.

If however it is approached carefully with the correct level of intelligence and care it is well worth doing. It pays for around 25% of our electricity every month.

Give it a try!

Exactly my point! Economy 7 was designed in something like the 1980’s (don’t quote me on the dates please!) for a purpose where it was vital back then. In more recent times, E7’s original purpose has faded somewhat and it’s more often used for other purposes. In some cases, having E7 is basically mandatory.

If you mess up, the penalty is that it’ll cost you an absolute fortune.

OVO Power Move is a COMPLETELY OPTIONAL scheme that encourages folks to move power usage away from the 4pm to 7pm peak and try to spread the load around the day more evenly.

If you mess up, nothing happens other than not getting the reward. And if you deliberately ignore the challenges, again, nothing bad happens to you - you just don’t reap the rewards.

And yeah, obviously don’t go milking or gaming the system. OVO can just as easily implement Anti-Cheat protection to punish cheaters by revoking their rewards.

And if trying to outsmart the initiative by simply using more during off peak, end up paying for energy which is not required .. not sure that is worth the credit offered 

That too should serve as a powerful Anti-Cheat by itself. But if OVO decided to implement their own Anti-Cheat measures as well, I’d definitely be OK with that.

If I am not mistaken the aim of Power Move is simply to get people to use less power between 4pm and  7pm when the grid is under pressure. 

It has nothing to do with Green energy.

So if people only used their ovens and microwaves for cooking during these hours plus unavoidable uses likwe freezers/lights, etc that should do it.  The point about Economy 7 is that users should be properly incentivised to use as many appliances at night when the grid has capacity.

We need cheaper rates from OFGEM (Standing Charges) and Energy companies (directed by Government) to encourage all users, not just those with Storage Heaters to use Economy 7. Then the new revamped Economy 7 need to be promoted and maybe also with a version for EV charging too (similar to Storage Heaters).

I think Power Move is a poor strategy and it is open to gaming (Fraud???)

I am not holding my breath………!

What they should do is, as you say make the economy 7 cheaper all day, or at least the same as the usual cost.  I run dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer (when I can't air dry) overnight. When the kids were here, it probably was more econimical than standard tariff. But as you say, I can't move much else so I'll probably stop the dual tariff. With no incentive to use these over night, why should I do the more complicated night time.  When the trial ran, I didn't see how I could get below 18 percent.... Very possibly below 15 but no where near this target

During that period, any incremental demand has largely to be met by burning fossil fuels. Moving demand to other hours of the day would allow at least some of it to be covered by greener sources, thus reducing carbon emissions. Last winter, coal-fired power stations had sometimes to be taken out of mothballs to meet peak demand.

This also highlights a different aspect of your E7 argument: in the winter, when storage heaters are being charged up at night by cheaper E7 electricity, there’s no solar power to help out. That’s probably not a big problem at the moment, but it could become one if much more demand - EV charging, for example - were shifted to the wee small hours.

Actually we have been using coal as a supplement recently, exactly as there is need to increase generation. One of the most polluting fuels. 

Hey @SteveCoach,

You’ve sparked a very interesting debate here! 

I have to say, I personally think power move is a really great scheme. To find out more about how using energy when the grid is greenest can reduce environmental impact why not head to our FAQ page:

• Power Move Frequently Asked Questions F.A.Q.

If you did want to try out Power Move first hand and give your feedback, you can head to the website.