Why are my solar panels causing my electric meter to run backwards?

Hi @MiguelAlabama ,

It’s actually better to fit a Smart Meter anyway - even if Comms don’t work for some reason, it can still track both Imports and Exports regardless. It merely won’t submit them for you.

OVO would contact you whenever readings are needed - and you’d just have to follow the instructions provided.

Hi @Abby_OVO thank you for the reply. O o have previously sent an engineer out to attempt a smart meter install but refused to do after not being able to get a signal. Were they wrong to do so? If I arrange for them to come again should I insist that they install a meter even though it is unable to use a mobile connection?

many thanks 

Hey @MiguelAlabama 

I’ve been in touch with one of our specialists about this to see what the next best step will be.

They’d like to take a look into it to see what we can do next to get this sorted out. I’m going to reach out to you via private message to take some details so we can help out here, look out for a private message here soon.🙂

I recently had seven solar panels installed on the north facing (yes, I know!) roof of my cottage, as part of the government’s ECO4 grant.  

I contacted OVO who told me that I can’t get a smart meter as there’s not enough WAN in the village where I live.  They emailed the following - I note that you have stated that we cannot install a smart meter which would be a criteria to meet in order for us to receive export reads to calculate payments. Additionally, if this is the case you will need to contact an accredited export meter installer and have them instal a suitable export meter in order for you the fulfil the criteria.

I eventually found a company that installs export meters - remarkably tricky to find any information about them at all - and they have told me that I’ll be paying around £450 yearly for the data contract and meter - yikes!  And particularly frustrating when a smart meter is, I think, free.

Next, I looked at getting a battery - but these are several thousand pounds - yikes, again!  

Finally, I’ve seen some oldish discussions on this forum about this very issue - specifically, the ability / inability to get a smart meter in an area where there is insufficient WAN, and I’m now wondering if this would be possible??  If so, all my many problems could be solved!

Finally - yes, really - in the meantime, my panels are producing energy.  What is happening to this energy - I’m imagining it floating out into the ether!

Many thanks

Cate

Hi ​@Cate123 , presumably your solar system is providing energy for your home but you’re correct that anything on top of your consumption will be sent back to the grid.

It would be useful to know what system you have installed - which inverter and if you have a monitoring system (app or via the web).

For the installation itself, I would have thought that you would get a certificate (MCS or otherwise) from the installers.

On the smart meter, there have been some improvements but it depends on your local area and signal. Do any neighbours have smartmeters installed?

Home batteries are a good addition to solar PV but this could be a future enhancement.

Hi ​@BPLightlog and thank you for your helpful reply.

I think what you’re saying is that, if I’m in the cottage and energy is being produced by the panels and I happen to be using electricity at the same time, e.g. the washing machine is on, then the energy from the panels will power that.  Otherwise, the energy goes into the national grid. 

I think that the panels were manufactured by Das Solar and I have downloaded the SolaXCloud app onto my phone and the panels are linked to that.  

There are two households in the village who also have solar panels - one household don’t speak to anyone!!!!  The other household are very happy to chat but have had the system in place so long that, although they can talk about the benefits, they can’t really remember the trauma of getting the system up and running.  What they do know is that they don’t have a smart meter and, indeed, Ovo have confirmed this to me today.

I’ve now found - online - that some people (presumably those who also can’t get smart meters) are able to submit readings manually.  I’ve emailed Ovo about this today and hope that they come back positively.  

You are able to export any excess solar PV production to any of the suppliers registered on the scheme, it doesn’t have to be the same company as your energy supplier. That being said, some will have their own rules as far as what they will accept as meter readings and certification.

You will need to look at SEG which is overlooked by Ofgem.

Hi ​@BPLightlog 

That is So helpful.  Although I’ve contacted OVO to ask if they take manual readings, following your message, I’ve quickly gone online and found four companies that definitely (fingers crossed) do take them.  I’ve sent them all an email and am feeling much more hopeful!

Many thanks

Cate

Hey ​@Cate123, 

It sounds like your solar journey has had a frustrating start, but I'm glad ​@BPLightlog has offered some great advice to help you get started. Please keep us updated on what you hear from the team regarding manual readings. If you don't receive a response, let us know, and we can try to follow up for you.

I've added a Solar badge to your profile, so we know you're part of our bright Solar community.

🌞

Hi ​@Chris_OVO and I completely agree, ​@BPLightlog  has been really helpful with advice and I feel as though I Finally might be getting somewhere. 
 

I will definitely post if / when I hear from any of the four companies that I’ve contacted. Interestingly, they’re all big name companies.

I’ll also post if I don’t hear anything back. Fingers crossed that that won’t happen.

Hi and thought I’d post an update…

I have realised that my traditional electricity meter is running backwards - who knew that this was a thing!  Initially, I thought that I had submitted a reading incorrectly, but no - it is running backwards.  So, I contacted Ovo about this a couple of days ago and this morning got a call from them - I then spent well over an hour talking with the extremely helpful Paul.

(While on the phone, I mentioned that I still hadn’t heard back from Ovo re my enquiry regarding submitting manual readings for the solar panels and Paul took this on board as well.)

Personally, I think that the backwards-running meter is linked in some way to the solar panels.  Yes, I know that the panels aren’t linked to my Ovo electricity account, but thinking about it - it started running backwards around the same time as the panels were installed.

Anyway, Paul has booked for me to get a smart meter that will run in ‘dumb mode’.  This appointment is for 1st July.  

What I don’t know is if I can then submit the panel readings to Ovo?!

Any suggestions, as usual, would be very much appreciated.

Thanks, Cate

Ah, yes .. an old style meter could turn backwards if more energy is exported than used. 
It was a requirement to notify your supplier on this and of course, once realised, you’ve done that.

A new smart meter will record usage and export separately so that should help with your request to set up your export account.

Once you get the new meter installed, make sure that it get an export registration as well (Export MPAN). Your supplier will apply to the local DNO for this to register on your property. This is in effect shown as a separate meter ‘number’ so that it can be distinguished from you normal supply.

Thanks ​@BPLightlog for this helpful reply.

I’ve been told all along that I can’t have a smart meter because there’s not enough WAN in the village where I live.  Is this why the smart meter that they are now going to install will be in ‘dumb’ mode?  

Presumably the dumb mode smart meter won’t go backwards?!

What I’m really hoping is that this will enable me to give manual readings of the panels’ output?  Although I Still haven’t actually been told if OVO accept these manual readings!

Yes - it operates as it's supposed to but just won’t send readings directly. They are working on solutions for problem signal areas so you might only be a step away from a fully functioning smart meter.

That’s right. They are programmed to record usage and export separately.

All smart meters can show the user readings so you will be able to record and send readings manually. 

Hey ​@Cate123 

BPLighlog has again given some really helpful advice here.

We’ve seen a number of community members on the forum report their meters have ‘run backwards’ when they’ve had solar panels installed so you aren’t alone. 

Having a smart meter fitted in ‘dumb meter’ mode should rectify this issue. 

Thank you so much for popping back with an update, let us know how it goes with the meter exchange 😊 & have a lovely weekend!

Once again, a big thank you to ​@BPLightlog for this really helpful information.

I think that I might Finally be on the way to sorting this out once and for all!

The next step - once the smart meter has been installed, is to get Ovo to change my tarriff and accept manual readings….

Thanks again, Cate

Hi ​@Cate123, great to see that between you and ​@BPLightlog plus the ever helpful ​@Emmanuelle_OVO and ​@Chris_OVO, things are looking a bit brighter for you now!

One tiny question: you wondered whether a smart meter can display for you your panels’ output.  Did you mean the amount your panels export to the grid (in effect, their surplus production not used by your house and thus exported back to the grid) or did you mean the total generated by the panels regardless of whether any is exported or used by the house?  If the former, then yes, as has been said the smart meter will display this for you (whether or not it’s in “dumb” mode).  If the latter, then no, you need a separate generation meter, which most likely will have been fitted at install time?  
 

Your inverter (or the app you describe) will provide in one of its own displays an approximate guess as to what’s been generated over time, but a generation meter is more accurate (and was always required for the old FiT scheme). To install one somewhere in the cabling between the inverter and your consumer unit is not, in theory (!), a huge problem for an electrician, given a bit of suitable free space somewhere along the cable’s route, but I’d be really surprised if one hasn’t already been installed?  Perhaps it’s somewhere tucked away out of sight (which isn’t really a good idea, I still check mine every day, and record the reading in my little book; it used to be twice a day years ago before I really trusted the system!). Not an essential bit of kit, but in my own circs a lot easier than poking my head every day up into the roof space above the spare bedroom to have a look at the inverter. Which, by the way, in 12 years has never failed.

And don’t worry too much about your existing old meter running backwards, as ​@Emmanuelle_OVO intimates I for one experienced exactly the same after the panels were first installed!  I used to be practically mesmerised by it, actually!  You’ve informed the powers that be, your installer will have recorded your meter reading at install time (probably?) but even if they didn’t, your recent readings plus your series of readings prior to the solar panels will give everyone a fair chance of accurate calculation, and of course your new supply meter will come very soon.

Enjoy the difference the solar panels make over the upcoming months, have no fear these teething problems aren’t at all unknown, and you’re doing everything correctly to sort them out very soon. The panels themselves are so reliable, and the inverters too, nowadays. Are your panels facing directly northwards, as a matter of interest? Perhaps it’s a slightly pitched roof rather than a steep one? Half mine are NW and the other half are SE, but the NW ones don’t do a lot of business between Oct and Mar.

All the very best, keep us posted on progress! Very interesting stuff, kindest regards…

Morning ​@Cate123, I hope you’re doing well!

On top of ​@waltyboy’s brilliant advice yesterday I just want to ask - have you got a meter replacement job booked in with us yet? If you could keep us updated as to how it goes we’d really appreciate it!

Once you’ve got the new meter in place and can take export readings you could sign up for Smart Export Guarantee SEG) with any supplier who offers it, as advised in this thread by ​@BPLightlog . If you’d like to sign up with OVO for SEG, the application details can be found here. Once you’ve got the new meter and everything is being clocked correctly, we can pay you back for your exported electricity under SEG 😁. You can find out more here:

Once again, many, many thanks for the replies - all of which are helping me get on my way to success.

​@waltyboy  - Re - One tiny question: you wondered whether a smart meter can display for you your panels’ output.    I’m now looking forward to reading, once the smart meter is installed, to see how much is being exported to the grid. 

I’m wondering if the photo shows the generation meter?  I do look at this every day.  I find the lights slightly counterintuitive - the red flashing light, which to me would indicate that all is not well, actually means that the system is working and the panels are generating power!

Sadly, the panels are directly north.  There are seven and yesterday - gloriously sunny weather - they produced just over 7 kWh - I have no idea how this compares with seven south facing panels.  When the surveyor came to assess the work done for the ECO4 grant his one takeaway was the panels and so I’m now pushing the company to put some on the south facing roof.  

​@Ben_OVO Yes, I’ve got a appointment for the 1st July and, as you say, once the smart meter is in and I can sort out the SEG then I can finally tick the particular job off my very long to-do list!

Will let you know how I get on!

Many thanks once again, Cate

Hi ​@Cate123, yep, that meter is exactly the right jobby, your generation meter.   That’s good to know, and will be useful to you (it looks like your panels have already generated 365 kWh, assuming the meter was set at zero when installed, which I have no doubt it was). 365 kWh for 7 recently installed solar panels is no mean feat, actually, April/May time.  And 7 kWh for yesterday alone is pretty good, my fourteen panels yesterday generated exactly the same!  Half facing North-ish and half facing South-ish, but your modern panels will possibly be around 400 Watts each, whereas my somewhat elderly exemplars are 200 Watts each.  So, take heart, you’re generating very respectably indeed, only imagine if you do persuade them to put some on the South-facing roof, too!  There’ll have been some reason for them selecting the aspect that they chose…wonder what it was?
 

The flashing red light is purely to help some electronic impulse-reading equipment read the meter if one wanted to fit that as an option for logging and recording purposes (I think, I’m guessing a bit here, maybe ​@BPLightlog or someone equally more knowledgeable than I, can elucidate on that for us?) but it’s definitely normal, my generation meter looks to be almost an identical meter, including the pulsing red light!

So, it sounds as though you are getting the job well and truly in hand, you will definitely notice the difference the panels will make to you.  A very Good Thing, well worth all the teething problems that you’ve successfully negotiated….all the very best, please do keep us posted on how everything goes, especially with the house’s new smart meter in July.  
 

EDIT.  Doh! I clearly must have had a hard week!  Make mine sixteen panels not fourteen, actually!  So that makes your 7 panels even more productive!  atb…

…

I’m wondering if the photo shows the generation meter?  I do look at this every day.  

…

 

 

Yes as Waltyboy mentioned that’s your meter to record generation (separate to export).

and the red flashing light is just like any other meter - it flashes as it’s measuring power, just in this case measuring power from your solar panels. In some cases it is used as a remote sensor but that’s generally not used.

You can see it tells you how many pulses for each kWh of energy produced 

Our previous energy supplier SSE refused to confirm that the installation of a smart meter would not adversely affect our solar panel installation, does anyone know whether or not a smart meter can adversely affect a solar panel installation.

Hi ​@Ballywalk ,

Long story short, a Smart Meter will NOT disrupt your solar panels. Just make sure the CT Clamps are correctly re-installed afterwards and you’ll be fine.

Earlier models of smart meter were not compatible with solar PV but as Blastoise mentioned, with the SMETS2 type meters now in main usage, they cope well. 
If your solar inverter monitors your power via a CT then this must be reconnected in the same way as previously. It will have an arrow moulded into its casing and it’s important that this points in a specific direction once clipped around the correct cable