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Is a good mobile phone connection vital to be able to export surplus power from Solar EV system?

  • 31 October 2023
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J
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Hi, simple question, I hope.

Can we export surplus EV power back to the grid if we do not have a good mobile signal? We have repeatedly applied for a Smart Meter and been told they will not work here because our mobile signal is not good enough. 

In an effort to reduce our inexplicably high bills we have installed a solar panel system the returns of which were predicated in part on being able to sell surplus generation back to the grid, via our supplier Octopus. At no time did anyone mention the requirement for a good mobile signal, we have wifi calling via a high speed broadband, but no reliable mobile signal indoors.

All this only became apparent when we applied for Octopus's Export Guarantee and they make clear we need a Smart Meter and when we applied we were told they are not currently available in our area! I can't find any advice about this, the lack of Smart Meter seems to be assumed to be a matter of choice not technology, Quite happy to invest in an Export Meter if that makes the difference but if that also requires a mobile signal doesn't seem to help. 

Are we screwed until mobile coverage improves is is there an alternative?

Any help or advice most gratefully received. Many thanks

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Best answer by Firedog 31 October 2023, 20:24

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Blastoise186
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Hi @John-in-Cornwall ,

I think you’ll struggle until the signal improves unfortunately. :(

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Thanks.

I’m trying to establish is this is something the installer should have warned us about, indeed should have taken into considertation when preparing the quote and proposal. Not that any of the installer who quoted asked or even mentioned it despite our inability to have Smart Meters and WHY featured heavily in all conversations with installers and electricians. And given the lack of information on the net I suppose it’s not unreasonable to assume this is not a common problem. Still I can’t believe we’re the first people in Cornwall to be effected and it’s not as if we live on the middle of Bodmin. But it was obvious that we do not have a Smart Meter already so again we are left wondering , why no-one thought to even mention the need for acceptable mobile signal.

The information is so confusing, not to say conflicting.  I recently read that the new model of Smart Meter should work with a poor signal and other talk glibbly about Export Meters, as if they somehow transmit data without mobile signal.

Indeed, several of the Smart Meter fitters who have visited over the years have suggested that there are ways to overcome the problem but they cost more so the Electricity companies will not provide them, aerials or masts, or even piggy backing our broadband, after all we make all our mobile calls using wifi calling, so why not a meter.

So frustrating!

 

 

 

BPLightlog
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To export power, you don’t necessarily need a smart meter. It is only for certain suppliers and tariffs @John-in-Cornwall .

Moving forward, that may become a criteria but if you search various provider options (for SEG I presume), you may find a suitable choice for now (it may not be at the highest level of tariff) as it doesn’t have to be with your energy provider

Independent volunteer - Sitting in a Faraday cage, waiting for a signal
Firedog
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This must be frustrating. 

You ask a very specific question, to which I suppose the answer - as given by BPLightlog - is ‘not necessarily’. However, the ‘good mobile phone connection’ is related to whether a smart meter will work at your house or not. 

Those responsible have of course considered the case of properties where there is no convenient mobile phone mast close enough to pick up and transmit the signal between the meter and the data collector. The solution in many cases is the mesh network; if there’s a property nearby that does have good communication with the data collector, your meter and others in the neighbourhood may be able to piggyback on this connection. You may find this site helpful; it’s packed with good information about smart meters.

I can’t find out how to determine whether there’s a potential mesh connection available where you live, although I’m sure someone has that responsibility. You could start by canvassing your neighbours - within a couple of miles - to find out if any of them have a working SMETS2 smart meter.  

It’s important to note that smart meters use secure communications technology similar to that used by mobile phones, but it’s not the same. 

 

Noel | I have no official status; I'm just a volunteer who comes here to help other customers. My gear: Aclara SGM 1416-B Electricity-only E7 meter; Chameleon IHD3-PPMID-AAA
J
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Thanks for your help. I must admit I find it incredible that this should be both so complicated and that getting information is so difficult.  

 

Not only that but patently, the problems are not common knowledge, at least not common enough that installers reference them in their proposals for quotation to install solar power systems.

 

 

 

Emmanuelle_OVO
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Hey @John-in-Cornwall,

 

It sounds really stressful, I’m sorry to hear.

 

Keep us posted with how you get on, it may help other Community Members is the same position. 

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Will do. One interesting quote we’ve found is this from OFGEM in their SEG: Guidance for Generators. Under Metering : 

1.21. Applicants that have a meter that cannot be read remotely should speak to their SEG licensee to discuss how export meter readings will be taken.

Now that says ‘how’ export meter readings will be taken, not ‘if’… I’ve no doubt all the SEG Operators will have a get out clause but it is something upon which to raise questions. That is, once Octopus actually respond to my initial email.

BPLightlog
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Will do. One interesting quote we’ve found is this from OFGEM in their SEG: Guidance for Generators. Under Metering : 

1.21. Applicants that have a meter that cannot be read remotely should speak to their SEG licensee to discuss how export meter readings will be taken.

Now that says ‘how’ export meter readings will be taken, not ‘if’… I’ve no doubt all the SEG Operators will have a get out clause but it is something upon which to raise questions. That is, once Octopus actually respond to my initial email.

A solar PV setup will have a generation meter and this can also often measure export as well. These readings can be used to send to you SEG provider if your smart meter is not connected. 
The schemes often vary in tariffs offered and so a manual reading may not give you the best return. 

Independent volunteer - Sitting in a Faraday cage, waiting for a signal
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Just checked and we have an Emlite EML M23 meter currently scrolling  Imp 152.50 Exp 000.00 Net -152.50. Which seems to tie in with our generation to date according to the Inverter of 154.80 why the difference?  Anyway, nice to know we do have an export meter so progress, though whether Octopus will accept readings in this form is anyone’s guess. Still waiting for their initial response so I can follow up.

BPLightlog
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Just checked and we have an Emlite EML M23 meter currently scrolling  Imp 152.50 Exp 000.00 Net -152.50. Which seems to tie in with our generation to date according to the Inverter of 154.80 why the difference?  Anyway, nice to know we do have an export meter so progress, though whether Octopus will accept readings in this form is anyone’s guess. Still waiting for their initial response so I can follow up.

The difference will be based on a direct measurement vs the clamp CT which is not as accurate 

Independent volunteer - Sitting in a Faraday cage, waiting for a signal
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Ah, many thanks,😄

J
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Had a very positive reply from Octopus:

Seems there is a hope that they may be able to connect us via  the WAN (wider area network) will post as soon as I have more news.

 

Blastoise186
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Had a very positive reply from Octopus:

Seems there is a hope that they may be able to connect us via  the WAN (wider area network) will post as soon as I have more news.

 

Just be ready in case it gets aborted. The Predicted Technical Abort isn’t triggered for no reason.

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Firedog
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Seems there is a hope that they may be able to connect us via  the WAN (wider area network) will post as soon as I have more news.

 

How did you get on, @John-in-Cornwall? Or is no news just bad news 🙁?

Noel | I have no official status; I'm just a volunteer who comes here to help other customers. My gear: Aclara SGM 1416-B Electricity-only E7 meter; Chameleon IHD3-PPMID-AAA
S
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I have a similar problem. A smart meter was installed in Spring 2023. The Technician added an external antenna to the communication unit and he said it had a good signal. The smart meter worked perfectly until September 2023. I reported the problem. A technician came to look at the problem on December 14th 2023 and concluded that the O2 mobile phone signal, previously adequate, had somehow changed and was now very weak. I live in the Black Moutains area of the Brecon Beacons. Until 2021 we had no mobile phone signal at all. Then BT/EE put up a mast for the Emergency Services Network and added a consumer mobile phone signal to BT/EE. 3, O2 and Vodafone still have no usable mobile phone signals in the area. Proposals to install new masts are objected to very strongly by residents who believe that masts will destroy the beauty of the National Park. Perhaps OVO could use all four networks for the smart meter?

Blastoise186
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Not an OVO decision I’m afraid - that’s up to DCC. Sorry about that

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!

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