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Consumer unit blocking cut-out

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Trying to move from prepay to direct debit credit-smartmeter system. Engineer said "consumer unit blocking cut-out access so can't install until sorted". Need landlord permission to get electrician. What is the issue here that we should describe to the landlord? Unless we get someone from electricity provider to come out again, I don't feel we have enough info to ask for an electrician to come. Do they need us to get the consumer unit moved, or the cut-out moved, or the wood moved, and permenantly or temporarily take off? Any idea? Thanks.

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Best answer by Blastoise186 22 June 2023, 12:22

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Oh and I was wondering how much this kind of rearrangement would generally cost?

BPLightlog
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Hi @BrightEyes161 , the consumer unit is what would have been called the fuse box so now houses the trips and such like. 
The engineer would need to gain access to the incoming supply which it looks like is just underneath the consumer unit in your top image. It is a strange set up on first view but you can see the device that has ‘60A’ on it which looks like the main input trip and probably what the engineer needs access to. 
Costs are entirely down to a electrician’s time and cost

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Blastoise186
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This is for your landlord to fix, as is the related cost so you shouldn’t have to pay anything. It’s not your fault that this (terrible) arrangement is how it is.

I’d say the easiest fix is to have the consumer unit moved. It’s the cheapest option and could potentially allow a Smart Meter Upgrade to be done at the same time, unlocking a move to PAYM with a Direct Debit.

Show this thread to your landlord and please let them know they’re free (and very welcome!) to create a forum account and ask for advice here if they need any.

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!
B
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This is for your landlord to fix, as is the related cost so you shouldn’t have to pay anything. It’s not your fault that this (terrible) arrangement is how it is.

I’d say the easiest fix is to have the consumer unit moved. It’s the cheapest option and could potentially allow a Smart Meter Upgrade to be done at the same time, unlocking a move to PAYM with a Direct Debit.

Show this thread to your landlord and please let them know they’re free (and very welcome!) to create a forum account and ask for advice here if they need any.

Thank you. I'm hoping the landlord will send the electrician over for the equipment to be rearranged in position, and then I can sort the rest with my energy provider as they have offered a free smart meter if we can get the access sorted.

Have approached landlord before with this, prior to getting more info on it, and they said it's not their repsonsibility to do anything. Is there anything I can send to them to help persuade? I think there's no obligation for them in Scotland sadly. They can't reject getting a smart meter if it's a "reasonable request" as far as I know, but they will probably argue that it isn't reasonable that they have to pay for the electrician to give access. 

Blastoise186
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If it’s OK to ask, what county/region are you in? I use this purely to identify your DNO so I can get better advice for you. Don’t worry if you’re unable/would rather not say as I can always talk to one of the DNOs I’m on good terms with as a fallback.

But this IS your landlord’s responsibility as you definitely can’t make this change yourself and it comes under the category of things that only the customer can deal with.

It’s also worth noting that the DNO needs to be able to get to their equipment i.e. the Service Fuse/Main Fuse and they won’t be too happy with a consumer unit impeding access to their stuff.

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Blastoise186
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In the meantime, I’ve had a chat with the ever always helpful DNO that is Western Power Distribution. It’s actually pretty neat that they’re able to answer on live chat at nearly 9pm. :)

Here’s what Rod from WPD has to say after reviewing this thread, he gave me permission to post this to the forum for you.

Its not normal for the consumer unit to be that close to the cut out fuse. However, as long as the main fuse can still be accessed, and if needed, the fuse could be removed or replaced. The electrician who installed the consumer unit would have regulations to follow, but I don't know what those regulations would be sorry.

 

Different DNOs may have different views but I often find WPD to be extremely on the ball. The big question that Rod has brought up is whether the main fuse can be accessed at all. If YES, you can probably get the meter swap done without too much trouble. If NO, then something needs to be moved before the upgrade can go ahead.

If you’d like me to, I’d also be happy to talk to your DNO to get their take. I can’t act on your behalf, but pretty much all of them are happy to give general advice.

Personally, it seems like you MIGHT be able to get to it. However, myself and Rod spotted a possible safety issue - the tamper seals are missing. You’ll definitely want to get that fixed.

I hope this helps.

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M.isterW
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If I may contribute my 2p worth... It looks like a wooden box has been built around the consumer unit. Could you dismantle the box so the engineer can access the fuse/cut out? It's probably best to ask your landlord for permission but I reckon you could easily remove the bottom panel.

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Tim_OVO
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What do you think, @BrightEyes161?

Carbon neutral - we need a community to get there! My green tech: Aclara SGM 1411-B smart meter, Chameleon IHD6
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If it’s OK to ask, what county/region are you in? I use this purely to identify your DNO so I can get better advice for you. Don’t worry if you’re unable/would rather not say as I can always talk to one of the DNOs I’m on good terms with as a fallback.

But this IS your landlord’s responsibility as you definitely can’t make this change yourself and it comes under the category of things that only the customer can deal with.

It’s also worth noting that the DNO needs to be able to get to their equipment i.e. the Service Fuse/Main Fuse and they won’t be too happy with a consumer unit impeding access to their stuff.

 

Thanks, we are with Scottish and Southern Electricity Network in regards to the DNO. Feel free to talk to them about this, it would be appreciated.

 

In the meantime, I’ve had a chat with the ever always helpful DNO that is Western Power Distribution. It’s actually pretty neat that they’re able to answer on live chat at nearly 9pm. :)

Here’s what Rod from WPD has to say after reviewing this thread, he gave me permission to post this to the forum for you.

Its not normal for the consumer unit to be that close to the cut out fuse. However, as long as the main fuse can still be accessed, and if needed, the fuse could be removed or replaced. The electrician who installed the consumer unit would have regulations to follow, but I don't know what those regulations would be sorry.

 

Different DNOs may have different views but I often find WPD to be extremely on the ball. The big question that Rod has brought up is whether the main fuse can be accessed at all. If YES, you can probably get the meter swap done without too much trouble. If NO, then something needs to be moved before the upgrade can go ahead.

If you’d like me to, I’d also be happy to talk to your DNO to get their take. I can’t act on your behalf, but pretty much all of them are happy to give general advice.

Personally, it seems like you MIGHT be able to get to it. However, myself and Rod spotted a possible safety issue - the tamper seals are missing. You’ll definitely want to get that fixed.

I hope this helps.

 

And thanks again. The engineer who came over from our energy provider left a form that said "consumer unit blocking access to cut out" as the reason for not being able to install a smart meter. It seems from what you've said that he probably means he can't access the cut out fuse, or might he mean something else? He didn't say anything about being against DDO regulations (though it still might be true), he just said that the landlord probably wouldn't send an electrician to create access to the cut out. Emailed landlord again and they're still saying that we have to pay for that, so he predicted that well!

 

We're on top up meters and can't get a tariff so it's not just about getting a smart meter, we want to move to a direct debit (credit meter?) to save money and if we are responsible for paying for the electrician ourselves, as the landlord says, it makes this less worth pursuing.

 

Do I also need to contact the landlord about tamper seals (on cut out?) or is this something I am responsible for sorting myself?

Blastoise186
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Thanks for confirming. Bear with me, I’ll have a word with SSEN now

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If I may contribute my 2p worth... It looks like a wooden box has been built around the consumer unit. Could you dismantle the box so the engineer can access the fuse/cut out? It's probably best to ask your landlord for permission but I reckon you could easily remove the bottom panel.

 

Interesting thanks. As far as I remember, the engineer said that both the consumer unit and wooden panel were blocking access to the cut out but I'm not certain. Maybe it's worth getting them to come again but it feels like wasting their time so I haven't yet.

Blastoise186
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Ok, I just had a phone call with SSEN and got a really good agent who managed to figure out how your setup works without seeing photos. Impressive!

SSEN agrees with your supplier - the consumer unit should ideally be moved out of the way. This is different from what WPD said, but since they all have different rules, you’ll get different results.

She thinks the best option to fix this whole thing would be for SSEN to kill your entire supply at a transformer/sub-station for a few hours to enable the following to be done:

  1. Fit an isolator switch (optional but worth considering)
  2. Allow the consumer unit to be moved safely
  3. Unlock the ability to get a Smart Meter upgrade
  4. Make future maintenance much easier and safer on just about any of the equipment
  5. Potentially allow a meter swap at the same time, since the supply would be dead anyway

SSEN would be willing to stop by for free to take a look and recommend specific solutions and all telephone advice is of course completely free too, but doing any of the above would incur costs that your landlord would probably need to pay. If you give them a call on 0800 048 3516 they can provide more details - the General Enquiries option is fine for this.

SSEN would also be happy to fix the tamper seals for free. If you give them a call, they can arrange that.

Mind you, even if SSEN were to just kill the supply for a few hours via the sub-station to enable a safe Smart Meter Upgrade install, that would definitely make the supply be in a safe state to swap the meter over. A bit of a hacky overpowered workaround, but definitely safe for the meter engineer.

I don’t see why you should have to pay if you didn’t set things up this way - this often comes under what the landlord should be doing. And besides, if you moved out you’d no longer benefit from it either.

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!
Blastoise186
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Another update. SSEN has uncovered some more advice for you that they’ve asked me to post here. They’ve also given me an email address you can use. They don’t want it to be posted publicly on the forum but are OK with me sharing it with you, so I’ll send that to you privately in a second.

SSEN also thinks your landlord is potentially breaching EICR by having the main fuse blocked by that consumer unit. There’s more info about that at https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/find-an-electrician/periodic-inspection-explained/guide-to-condition-reports/ . This would almost certainly mean your landlord needs to fix this at their cost. SSEN requires that their equipment is always accessible without obstructions, so the consumer unit will need to be moved.

They’ve also suggested that the wooden box around the main fuse would probably have to come down as well.

You may also find https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector-guidance-for-landlords-tenants-and-local-authorities/guide-for-landlords-electrical-safety-standards-in-the-private-rented-sector useful.

Failure to comply with these rules may result in the landlord being hit with a £30,000 fine on top of being forced to pay for remedial works. You as the tenant would not be liable to pay anything. Have a word with the local council if your landlord still refuses to budge as they can enforce this. If the council ends up being forced to do the remedial work themselves, they will seek to recover all costs from your landlord in full.

I’m also a bit concerned that this setup as it stands is potentially dangerous so I’d definitely recommend you or your landlord get this checked out sooner rather than later.

The good news is that a Smart Meter could also be installed while the power is still off, if your supplier is up for doing that at the same time it would reduce disruption.

If you send SSEN an email with things like photos of the setup, your address and a link to this thread, they can advise further.

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!
Tim_OVO
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It’s definitively worth giving SSEN a call directly then, @BrightEyes161, I’d recommend you do that first so any advice to your landlord has come from SSEN directly and not from here. 

 

Keep us updated! 

Carbon neutral - we need a community to get there! My green tech: Aclara SGM 1411-B smart meter, Chameleon IHD6
B
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Thanks so much. I'm going to come back when I have updates.

Blastoise186
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No worries! We’ll be around if you need us for anything. :)

Securing energy by zapping security bugs... For that is The Blastoise Way!

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