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200 amp single phase smart meter, can OVO do this?

We have a single phase 200 amp supply, which supplies several, all electric, holiday let cottages in Snowdonia.

Our current supplier (and previous supplier too) wouldn’t listen to me and when they came to install our smart meter, sent out a normal engineer with a simple 100A meter.

The first supplier said they couldn’t help us so we moved to Octopus, who after their failed installation have now given us the run around for the past 5 months. They tell me that they can install a 200A smart CT meter, that will give us access to the agile tariffs that we’re after, but that an external company has to do this (SMS) and that they have no free appointments in our area for the foreseeable future!

If we moved to OVO would they be able to install us a 200A CT smart meter? I have read other informative threads on this forum, but they refer to polyphase or 3 phase supplies.

Thanks in advance

 

 

24 replies

Blastoise186
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Hi @Martin2024 ,

OVO does have experience with this stuff - would you mind showing us some photos of what you’ve got now as this helps Forum Volunteers like myself get a better idea of what’s going on. We will not use this to have OVO try and sell you stuff - it will just be used here on the Forum only.

Just curious, but who were your previous suppliers if you don’t mind me asking? Mentioning them here is totally OK with us - this Forum is open to everyone. :)

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BPLightlog
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If I read your question correctly @Martin2024 , you are talking about a commercial supply (rather than domestic) which I don’t believe that OVO can offer

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Blastoise186
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True, but I think we can probably still try to de-mystify this a bit. :)

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M
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the meter was installed with our new 50kva supply back in 2019. it’s in dumb mode.

M
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If I read your question correctly @Martin2024 , you are talking about a commercial supply (rather than domestic) which I don’t believe that OVO can offer

Our account is a domestic one. which was a big relief over the past couple of years

 

Blastoise186
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Thanks!

If you’re on a Non-Domestic supply, OVO can’t serve you as they only do Domestic supplies.  If you ARE on a Domestic supply, you might be able to get OVO to serve you. However, the House Rules here still allow us Forum Volunteers to offer you advice for free either way - if we can do it for a couple of schools, I’m sure we can get away with a few holiday flats. :)

You don’t have a Smart Meter there. That’s an Elster A1140 which is actually an AMR Meter which is a different beast entirely. I’m truly sorry to tell you this, but you’ll never get Agile Tariffs e.g. Octopus Agile with an AMR Meter.

Unfortunately, your setup is incompatible with ALL known SMETS1 and SMETS2 Smart Meters - you’d have to go for AMR again if you replaced it. Even though OVO can support AMR Meters, it’s the CT Metering thing and the 200A Supply that’s the upgrade blocker here.

Sorry about that.

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found this old photo which shows the incoming cable. It’s definitely only single phase as only one phase comes up the hill to our property. We inquired about having a 3 phase supply when we were doing the building work, but due to the distances involved were quoted a 6 figure sum.

We haven’t measured our usage, but in winter there are 2 medium GSHP’s, three kitchens and one shared EV charger using the same supply, so at times we will be using more than 100A

Blastoise186
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Yup, that’s a CT Supply alright. One of OVO’s internal experts told me about this stuff once. I’m not surprised at the quote you got either…

But as far as I know, efforts to develop CT SMETS1/SMETS2 Smart Meters were ultimately abandoned as being too complicated and already covered by AMR - which is what you have now.

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BPLightlog
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Are you sure? 

L1, L2, L3 and N are usually indicative a 3 phases and neutral and if you’d just shown that picture, I’d have said it was 3 phase

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Blastoise186
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Tell you what though… I might just use my Phone a Friend lifeline just to make sure…

Got a sec @Lukepeniket_OVO ? I know you love technical questions! :)

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Thanks!

If you’re on a Non-Domestic supply, OVO can’t serve you as they only do Domestic supplies.  If you ARE on a Domestic supply, you might be able to get OVO to serve you. However, the House Rules here still allow us Forum Volunteers to offer you advice for free either way - if we can do it for a couple of schools, I’m sure we can get away with a few holiday flats. :)

You don’t have a Smart Meter there. That’s an Elster A1140 which is actually an AMR Meter which is a different beast entirely. I’m truly sorry to tell you this, but you’ll never get Agile Tariffs e.g. Octopus Agile with an AMR Meter.

Unfortunately, your setup is incompatible with ALL known SMETS1 and SMETS2 Smart Meters - you’d have to go for AMR again if you replaced it. Even though OVO can support AMR Meters, it’s the CT Metering thing and the 200A Supply that’s the upgrade blocker here.

Sorry about that.

From what I read on the other threads i was worried that was the case.

forgive my lack of technical understanding... so it isn’t possible to split our 200A supply into 3 so that we could have a smart 3 phase meter?

 

Blastoise186
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Erm… Possibly? That’s pretty complicated stuff though and could be expensive.

Luke is someone who might be able to answer that a tiny bit more easily than me though. He’s a VERY good friend of the Forum but as he’s often out on the road, it may take a little while for him to swing by.

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BPLightlog
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forgive my lack of technical understanding... so it isn’t possible to split our 200A supply into 3 so that we could have a smart 3 phase meter?

 

If it is only single phase and the other feeds are blank, then it’s not possible to ‘upscale’ to 3 phase from single 

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it’s definitely only single phase. We had a lot of back and forth with SP energy networks, when we were deciding on whether we could go with GSHP’s rather than oil for our heating

they installed us a dedicated 50kva single phase transformer and connected us to it via a new 185mm single core LV cable.

BPLightlog
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it’s definitely only single phase. We had a lot of back and forth with SP energy networks, when we were deciding on whether we could go with GSHP’s rather than oil for our heating

they installed us a dedicated 50kva single phase transformer and connected us to it via a new 185mm single core LV cable.

It looks like the infrastructure for 3 phase was used then (incomer Henley casing and fuse blocks) so there must be only one of the Ln feeds in use. Single phase is nominal 230v whereas 3phase is nominally 415v so they are very different animals

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Or can our incoming supply be split in 2 so that we have 2 standard 100A smart meters? we have the different buildings on separate feeds so it would be relatively easy to even out our loads between the 2 meters.

I’m keen to install batteries to store our excess solar in the summer and to take advantage of cheaper electricity at night in the winter with one of the TOU contracts now available, but this requires a SMETS2 meter…..

BPLightlog
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Or can our incoming supply be split in 2 so that we have 2 standard 100A smart meters? we have the different buildings on separate feeds so it would be relatively easy to even out our loads between the 2 meters.

I’m keen to install batteries to store our excess solar in the summer and to take advantage of cheaper electricity at night in the winter with one of the TOU contracts now available, but this requires a SMETS2 meter…..

It’s fairly easy to split off but you’d need to fuse each leg at 100A. It’s still a fair job but possible. Each meter would have a standing charge being classed as a separate MPAN. 

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BPLightlog
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Just reading up elsewhere about others who have done this (split a single feed), one of the main hurdles is to make sure that one of the feeds cannot back feed to the other but if the single incomer is split correctly and then the 100A fuses are in place, it should be easy to use a breaker going into the separate meters and then to the distribution boards. 
Your solar and batteries might need a bit more thought to ensure isolation. 

^ obviously it will be necessary to check this out with a professional. Your DNO will probably need to be involved for the split and fusing

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Emmanuelle_OVO
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I can see our Community Members have already given some helpful advice here @Martin2024.

 

I’ll contact @Lukepeniket_OVO & see if he can stop by 😊

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L
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Just reading up elsewhere about others who have done this (split a single feed), one of the main hurdles is to make sure that one of the feeds cannot back feed to the other but if the single incomer is split correctly and then the 100A fuses are in place, it should be easy to use a breaker going into the separate meters and then to the distribution boards. 
Your solar and batteries might need a bit more thought to ensure isolation. 

^ obviously it will be necessary to check this out with a professional. Your DNO will probably need to be involved for the split and fusing

Hello all,

This i believe will be the only way, downrating from CT 200A supply to multiple single phase supplies. The kVa might be enough that you could get multiple 100A single phase supplies from that cutout but only the DNO would be able to do this. Snowdon area I know I have a 3 phase engineer up that way who covers that whole area. 

Good luck OP!

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Blastoise186
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Thanks as always Luke! Much appreciated.

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thanks everyone for the advice. Much appreciated. When you say only the DNO can help, does that mean I would have to contact them directly to get a quote for the work. Like i did when we had the new supply installed?  or would I have to go through my current supplier?

BPLightlog
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thanks everyone for the advice. Much appreciated. When you say only the DNO can help, does that mean I would have to contact them directly to get a quote for the work. Like i did when we had the new supply installed?  or would I have to go through my current supplier?

You should contact them directly and explain your situation and requests. That part of the installation is the responsibility of your DNO rather than your supplier

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Emmanuelle_OVO
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Hey @Martin2024,

 

This topic may be helpful to you:

 

 

Renewable Energy? Big Fan.

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