Greener living all year round- How are people reducing energy?

What’s your formula @JNeve , how do you use less - any tips are always useful

Well l was hoping you could tell me BPlightlog. I find it harder using less energy any other time during the day.

Well if their is any useful tips please let me know l am forever be great full.

Lol - looking at your post title, I thought you were suggesting it’s easy.

For me, I tend to prepare food just before the event and finish off if needed with little power use. I use an air fryer rather than the main oven which saves a fair amount of power as well.

Most appliances - washing machine, microwave, oven etc - are not used for that time and we have low usage of other appliances anyway.

We use led light bulbs so they consume next to nothing and are generally more careful in peak time use.

Hi @JNeve, like @BPLightlog suggests above.

However, I was curious: I like your “greener living” heading, can I ask whether you’re thinking of any specifics when you mention “targets”? Like current initiatives by OVO (and others), or are you thinking in general terms of your own household’s targets to achieve greener living (and also get some costs down!).

Yes l was thinking of reaching my targets of less energy all round. maybe l try that either using the different appliances later on or early.

As I mentioned, an air fryer is particularly good if possible (we only use our main oven occasionally these days). LED bulbs as well use significantly less power which tends to mount up in winter. 
How about heating? If you have a gas boiler, it’s worth checking the settings like flow temperature and also hot water (so you don’t add cold to make it usable) 

There are several guide available 

• Energy saving tips this winter Blog

All the lights have been LED for as long as not was possible but have to use them in the dark. Short of turning them on outside the target timesthe only option. Is sitting on the darker going out.  I only ever use the air fryer these days except for the very occasional roast dinner at the weekend. 

I too thought this referred to only having one hour to focus on, and that might be achievable by avoiding all cooking, hot drink making etc for one hour. However it's not realistic to spend 3 or 4 hours in the winter sitting in the dark with cold drinks.  

We have two heavy duty “appliances” (an EV and a pottery kiln) which is an advantage when it comes to shifting usage but a disadvantage in that they make our bills higher than would otherwise be the case.

My EV is scheduled to only draw power from midnight to 4 pm and then again from 7 pm to midnight on weekdays and I try to charge on weekdays.

We also try to fire the kiln up on a mid-week evening so that it runs overnight.

Those who don’t have such heavy usage items can try doing the same thing with ovens, washing machines, dryers, electric fires, dishwashers etc..

It is really not worth bothering with TVs and light bulbs!

Agreed, after the obvious ( washer, dryer,  oven) and maybe less obvious (charging up devices, get an air fryer, swap to LEDs) then assuming you have insulation, double glazing etc further savings are barely achievable. I'm not going to sit in the dark or spend hours trawling through spreadsheets because of energy producers’ incompetence , greed and lack of planning!  More savings by having one less beer per week ;-)

It’s nearly impossible when you don’t waste energy and use minimal overall . On the few days we hit the target it’s usually because because we have been out all day and not prepared a warm lunch or dinner. Appliances are used outside the peak hours. 

Yep, totally agree, the reward is nice but it's really about getting people to restrict usage at peak time because the energy providers still rely on coal to bail them out.  in Sept we were only in the house for one day (long and boring story!) but still had a £40 bill. The only appliances left on were a new, efficient(?) fridge freezer & couple of LED security lights. standing charges : £14 elec  and £8 gas. Actual usage £18.

Hi @Baffled but hopeful and @Will R, you’re experiences of Power Move do sound frustrating, to say the least!

The thing to bear in mind is that this current Power Move incentive is all about the relationship between weekday peak hour usage (between 4 and 7 in the evening) and the usage in the rest of the 24 hour weekday. The 4-7 slot is 12.5% of those 24 hours, so as long as you use no more on average during 4-7 than you do in any of the other 3 hour weekday slots, you hit the target.  For the winter Power Move, OVO are actually permitting 13.5% usage, so that makes it slightly more achievable.  But it’s the precise proportion of the 4-7 weekday electricity consumption as a percentage of the overall 24 hours weekday electricity consumption that’s the important thing, summed over the month, so any day-by-day fluctuation gets smoothed into the monthly aggregate. 

Suppose you are away from the house all month and you switch everything off at the mains incomer by your consumer unit: you would consume no electricity, zero kWh, (standing charges are a separate issue and play no part in measuring your consumption) but you would still not achieve the Power Move target as your peak hours weekday 4-7 consumption as a proportion of your weekday 24 hour consumption wouldn’t be great. 
 

It is definitely not recommended to sit in the dark and cold between 4 and 7, or indeed at any other time! Cutting back on lighting and on your gas CH pump and your ‘fridge would be unlikely to make much contribution in any case. Let’s say ‘fridge, CH combi pump, led lighting, led TV, plus all the other background household consumption like mains alarms, landline handsets/base unit, doorbell transformers, cooker and microwave clocks, total 400 Wh during the 4-7 slot, then for the rest of the 24 hour winter Power Move weekday, your consumption would need to be around 2.7 kWh. For the fortunate folk who use on average less than that amount of around 3kWh per day, then indeed their total 4-7 consumption would need to be less than 400 Wh, which is achievable but a challenge!

It is difficult for those fortunate and well-organised ultra-low users, but there are strategies: they could for example move some of their weekend (or bank holiday) usage to weekday non-4-7 slots, in order to make their 4-7 slot “look good” when compared to overall 24 hour usage. This is not increasing overall consumption (that wouldn't be a great strategy!), just moving stuff around a bit as @Simon 1402 suggests, and in any event weekend energy can be “dirty” too.

People on Economy7 or Economy10 heaters, for example, already are in effect moving consumption, as their tariffs are designed specifically to operate outside peak hours slots. Those with EVs can do the same, but any of us with more “everyday” modern household heavy hitters like electric ovens/hobs, washing machines, showers (definitely!), dishwashers, electric kettles and even the more economical electrical items like microwaves and air fryers can try to use these on weekdays outside the weekday 4-7 slot. 
 

This is not to suggest increasing consumption overall, nobody would recommend that, but just moving stuff around a bit, where possible, without causing ourselves and our families too much inconvenience and definitely not distress or hardship: nobody should sit or move around in dark or cold houses, nobody would advocate that, plus overall it wouldn’t make much of a difference, unless you’re determined to use less than a couple of kWh of electricity per day in winter. Some folk will indeed manage that, but that sort of ultra low usage, without PV and storage batteries, probably means the winter Power Move may not be for them. Having said that, electricity consumption as low as £20-odd per month makes the £15 Power Move pot awfully tempting!

Main thing is, if we keep a sharp weather eye on our 4-7 slot by checking our OVO account usage half-hour figures, trying to reduce consumption in that key slot, we will be doing our best for ourselves and for the community…good luck everyone and have a good go at things in December! Fortunately Bank Holidays (and of course weekends) are exempt from the rigours of Power Move weekdays! And no sitting in the dark or cold! But I would suggest monitoring carefully over the next few days, via your account usage page, that 4-7 weekday usage and working out whether you can hit the December target.

Let us know anything you found difficult, so that we can all share the problems and hopefully find some solutions, 

I think it is worth pointing out that it is gas power stations and interconnections with other countries that do most of the cover for peak hours these days.

There is only one coal power station left in the UK now, the final few others closed over the summer

https://www.uniper.energy/united-kingdom/power-plants-in-the-united-kingdom/ratcliffe-soar

This final coal power station provided no peak burst over the last 24 hours, instead provided a very low level of power over the whole time apart from a short dip overnight.

The red line is coal which shows just how low it was.

This last coal power station is due to close in September 2024.

It is interesting just how long there has been little wind recently in the above graph.

Interesting peak demand over the last 24 hours was just after the Demand Flexibility window 

Hi @JNeve, provided you don’t regard it as an intrusive question (not intended to be, just one consumer to another!), can I ask you whether you have a smart meter currently?

It’s interesting that many people comment they don’t want to sit in the dark with cold drinks. We have been allowing one light on in one room only during the 4-7pm period. The other option we’ve used is a really powerful standing work torch that we charge earlier in the day and it lights a whole room really effectively for just under three hours. We also fill a litre flask with boiling  water at 3.45pm so we have hot water to last for drinks or hob cooking. We are fortunate to be able to eat during the day so we either eat before 4pm or after 7pm. I have really embraced it as a ‘challenge’ and we don't watch TV which is what I used to do in that slump part of my day. I now either catch up on emails on my fully charged laptop; or I have rediscovered the joy of reading a book so it’s a win:win for me. Curling up on the sofa or the bed  under a blanket with cosy lighting and a good book plus a financial reward!

Hi Waltyboy. I don’t mind you asking yes l have a smart meter had it along time.

@waltyboy I’m in the process of getting PV and battery storage with a Fronius inverter. Would you recommend that make ? What made you choose it ? How much control do you have over when it charges and discharges your battery ?

Hi @juliamc Apologies for the delay in replying…absolutely no hesitation in recommending Fronius! I bought mine used (actually, turns out it was ex-display, so I was quite lucky!) on that well-know Internet auction site, and ten years on its still going strong, daily use. No maintenance, no troubles at all. I did contact their tech support years ago about installing extra data logging on it, and they were wonderful.

Good choice on your part! Mine was more luck than judgement, as ten years ago I’d never heard of them. It’s an on-grid Fronius IG, and just behaves impeccably day in day out, coping with occasional power cuts (or power isolation when we’ve had power isolated at various times over the years for different works). It just waits politely until power is up again, does its own checks for a few minutes and then quietly gets on with the job. It even just sat quietly when it was installed with pos and neg PV leads reversed in error, and waited patiently for the error to be spotted!

What is most surprising, though, is the way it adapted seamlessly to having the new ongrid small inverter: the small inverter is powered exclusively by the storage battery and I’d imagined all sorts of horrors when Fronius was coming on stream every daybreak, and indeed going on standby at dusk. But not a bit of it, they’re both permanently on grid, Fronius powered exclusively by PV, and they get on fine. 

My Fronius is very old school and is not linked in any way to battery storage, I’m afraid, so I can’t speak about responsiveness and control there, I’m afraid. But the system you are getting installed is the modern way to go, very efficient and balances grid supply and your house’s demands and battery resources in the best possible way.  My battery storage is small and is linked to a small secondary inverter which hasn’t got the prestige of the Fronius marque (although I have to say, 8 months on with the little inverter and it’s behaved well), and unlike yours my cobbled-together system is not the recommended way to go!  That’s no reflection on Fronius, though, that part is faultless. 

You wont know yourself with PV panels and battery storage…do make sure and let us know how you get on…will they be installed this winter?  If you get storage and panels installed at the same time I think there’s some kind of VAT break? If they’re installed at separate times you pay full VAT on each (I think, you’d need to check on this if it’s relevant to your proposed works?)

All the best, keep us posted, I and many others on here will be very interested!

Thanks Walt for that glowing report on the Fronius !! Yes my installer pointed out the vat thing, I’m sure now that lots of battery storage will make sense for my house setup with the heat pump. I’m getting pv but although the roof will fit 22 panels I think I’m only going to get 11 and spend the money on more batteries. I will get everything together but I’m waiting for my main fuse to be upgraded from 60 to 100 Amps - unfortunately overlooked since I had the ev charger installed 3.5 yrs ago then the heat pump 2.5 yrs ago. It’s a bit annoying that I didn’t get it done before but hey ho, I’d rather wait and keep it all safe.

Great stuff @juliamc, sounds like a thoroughly organised setup you have there!

You’re absolutely right, Julia, about the extra battery capacity, unless you’re consuming a heap of electricity during daylight hours, 11 panels (each one probably around 350 Watts nowadays? 10 years ago, mine could only be 200 Watts each! A lot more bang for your buck now!) is more than enough to keep household consumption and batteries happy. As you so rightly intimate, the more battery capacity (within reason!) the better, the minimum nowadays seems to be 5kWh and a lot of folk now aim for anything between 10 and 20, which I guess is what you’ll be looking at?  You opting for greater battery capacity means that switching on your oven and, say, a washing machine, plus keeping all the usual backup stuff going, won’t be a problem when you've got plenty of nice battery backup waiting to be used. Smaller battery capacity would have meant you’d have to call on the grid a lot more frequently to top things up whenever you switched on the really big hitter items. 

Looking forward to hearing about it when it’s all up and running, and of course the EV adds another highly desirable, and extremely interesting, green energy dimension to your setup…

This shows how much electricity the heat pump has used since Jan 2022 and as you can see I need stacks of power in the darkest months (so to speak!). The pv will only come into its own spring and autumn to keep the hp going, then in summer we’ll have to use the car loads to make use of the solar rather than sell to back to the grid.😎

Yes, it’ll be fascinating balancing across all our unpredictable seasons your household loads using the grid’s supply (hopefully vastly reduced!) and your battery/PV supply, plus of course, potentially in the future, an EV supply (although that would require being able to leave the car plugged in virtually all the time it’s home. But that’s one for the future!).

I see what you mean about the HP consumption, and why you want a PV/battery setup that’s responsive to battery levels; I have little doubt that an up-to-date system like yours will fully integrate your household’s electricity supply and demand.  It’ll be nice to see those seasonal peaks smoothed out! 

Good luck…and do let us know….