@Jukebox
I recently sold my 24Kw Leaf (I had no choice with the job). I was really upset to let it go and would really love to get back in an EV but as you mention, the prices are too high at the moment for me to be able to afford even the 40kw Leaf. No way in hell am I purchasing a "Self Charging" Hybrid..... (Quotes for Hybrids are not self charging, all really bad marketing... Think otherwise? Come at me bro!) So I guess I will just wait for the 40kw Leaf to be in my price range.
EVs are in short supply because manufacturers are not ready to sell them whilst ICE models sell at their present rate.
They can’t afford to drop ICE production, they need the money to move to EVs.
The powerful German metal workers unions are a real challenge to companies like BMW, VW, Mercedes etc and they will not allow thousands of workers to be laid off because the numbers of workers needed for EV production is far fewer than those employed today.
In the U.K. there will need to be lots of job losses and many present day distributors will go out of business.
Just look at the difficulties that Pentagon group is in because JLR have failed to plan and invest for electrification. They have sold off branches of Stratstone and are moving away from new car sales to concentrate on large sites selling just used vehicles.
As for demand of EVs being high if JAGUAR sales are an indicator the evidence suggests the contrary.
Just check out the number of new and nearly new iPaces being offered on sites like eBay and Autotrader.
Then only this week we had Nissan state that they plan to cut back production by around 20%.
Things are far from rosy at the present time 😞
@Peetee
It is a shame manufactures think this way. But EV's are the future and unfortunately, such as life things change. In a previous job of mine, I had automated account creations for when new staff and students started which kind of made the admin person job redundant and unfortunately the school saw money saving and let go the admin person (I guess this is why people hate IT guys?).
But what I am trying to say is times change and the world adapts and unfortunately, it is sometimes never good. As far as I am aware most of Tesla manufacturing is automated with robots but final production is handled by humans?
But just think, this is the future and it's exciting that we can be apart of this transition from ICE vehicles
to amazing zero emission vehicles
@Tim_OVO Posted this video showing the production of a Tesla Model 3
https://forum.ovoenergy.com/owning-an-ev-87/tesla-fans-watch-this-model-3-assembly-from-start-to-finish-5511
@Peetee
It is a shame manufactures think this way. But EV's are the future and unfortunately, such as life things change. In a previous job of mine, I had automated account creations for when new staff and students started which kind of made the admin person job redundant and unfortunately the school saw money saving and let go the admin person (I guess this is why people hate IT guys?).
But what I am trying to say is times change and the world adapts and unfortunately, it is sometimes never good. As far as I am aware most of Tesla manufacturing is automated with robots but final production is handled by humans?
But just think, this is the future and it's exciting that we can be apart of this transition from ICE vehicles to amazing zero emission vehicles
@Tim_OVO Posted this video showing the production of a Tesla Model 3https://forum.ovoenergy.com/owning-an-ev-87/tesla-fans-watch-this-model-3-assembly-from-start-to-finish-5511
You are quite correct, times change and the world adapts but it will be painful for many.
Presently corporate heads are being buried in sand.
Huge, billions, of £s are needed to be invested by U.K. car manufacturers to develop electric car platforms, the IPace utilises a modified Range Rover platform, and dare I say it if we stay in the EU any request by JLR to the U.K. government for financial support , Tata their owners haven’t done it, will not be allowed.
They have been losing money for the last three quarters and are having to peddle diesel vehicles in order to avoid massive fines being imposed for exceeding their carbon targets.
Petrol engines will exacerbate their problem and they haven’t invested in electrification sufficiently. Perfect storm !
Anyway on the bright side when I first read your post I was watching the range in my car slowly creeping up to the magic 300 mile range.
This is a difficult site
I just wanted to post one image !
@Peetee Sorted...... 🙂
Thank you. Issue may have been a network issue.
First upload simply didn’t respond. Tried again and same. Third go and I see that they did upload but were not visible until I switched network.
I hear what you're saying @Peetee
I think there is another factor to consider when evaluating the future infiltration of EVs into the UK market. The Government and society seem to agree that it's the right way forward!
A. We shouldn't underestimate the gathering effect of the Climate Change Crisis on UK culture. In the last fortnight, headline news is being made by David Attenborough, Greta Thunberg and Extinction Rebellion.
Whatever the statistics say about pollution also being caused by (some) electricity production, it is nevertheless the case that people in large cities are no longer prepared to put up with inaction over exhaust emissions on their streets. They simply won't support politicians unless they see real action being taken.
B. It is crucial that we also evaluate the use of EVs as storage devices, capable of feeding energy back into the Electricity Grid and balancing the load.
Technical losses in the Distribution Grid (33kv and below) have doubled to 10% in the last 20 years. This is unsustainable, and we're all paying for it. Relatively few Storage Devices are actually needed per sub-station in order to recover this recent 5% rise in losses.
Once that is factored in, we won't need to build a couple of power stations. That in turn reduces pollution which means that the Government continues to meet its CO² targets.
You rightly point out the major international car manufacturers as being reluctant to invest. They want stability for their long-term financial strategies.
But you should also be looking at the smaller UK companies who are taking the lead in making positive contributions towards a more energy-efficient future.
Amongst these are Arrival Ltd. in Oxfordshire, whose electric vans are being trialed by Royal Mail, and OVO itself. OVOs Kaluza Division is developing innovative technologies which have recently attracted investment from Mitsubishi, who have taken a 20% stake in the company.
Hi all
I have had Hyundai Ioniq PHEV for over year. Next year I would like to go electric only.
But will have to wait 12 months. I think the problem is not car maker's its the Battery makers.
Until new battery factories come on line we will have shortage of ev's. Ev's are like gold dust and command high price. Also charging networks needs to improve with fare prices per kwh not £0.35 kwh. I charge at £0.09 kwh overnight on green elec.
Your observation may well be correct
@k1ms But the solutions are within our grasp.
This country is a hot-house of innovative design. We should be taking the lead in
- Lithium cell production
- Next generation storage beyond Lithium
We need more engineers and technicians. Dyson has resorted to running his own engineering sciences university in order to plug the shortfall.
And we need to start educating our children with the right skill sets at an earlier age. Instead of playing computer games, they require hands-on experience of building devices using embedded controllers like
Arduino and Raspberry Pi.
(
photo shows touch-sensitive dimming control being developed for a 3D printer)
Too few school science lessons now have practical experiments. The most you can hope for is a teacher-led demonstration from the front of class. Out of school clubs are a better way to go; with hands-on soldering and access to 3D printers, laser cutters etc
OVO has run such clubs for Bristol children in the past.
@Darran_OVO does this still happen?
In my area of the UK we have a surplus of renewable energy and too few workers to pick crops in the fields. There's a gap in the market for autonomous electrically-powered robots to meet the demand for such monotonous tasks.
It's not just road-based
EVs we need to consider!
My wife and I have recently taken delivery (one week ago) of a 40kwh Leaf N-Connecta EV with pro-pilot intelligent cruise control. We are very happy with it. For us, it ticks all the boxes of a good sized family car with functional boot space and more than adequate range for over 90% of our journeys. Our daily commute (we work in the same office) is 30miles (15miles each way). Based on the range shown on the dash board at 100% charge (~180miles), we should only need to charge once a week. Having said that, the route is cross country with a few 10% inclines which may sap a bit more juice than a flat route. We have done a couple of longer journeys and have adjusted easily to the extra time needed at service stations when the range or charger availability anxiety kicks in. Within 30mins of rapid charging (~30-50kwh), we are able to replenish ~50% of the battery - enough to get us to central London and back home to South Oxforshire without recharging. A comfort break and a cup of coffee or bite to eat will fill this time up easily. Currently not seeing any draw backs aside from the need to be more conscious of available range. Using ZapMap or the car's sat nav, finding a charger nearby is a doddle. Forward planning of available fast chargers will be necessary for longer journeys.
Electric cars are not and never will be environmentally friendly, but they sure as hell are better than an internal combustion engine based vehicle. I brought mine mainly due to guilt; sitting in traffic in a diesel car whilst school kids make their way on foot to school still makes me cringe. But electric cars are also much much cheaper to run and I personally prefer the driving experience.
With respect to moving the pollution to power stations, remember it takes a lot of electricity to refine petrol and diesel and any displacement is only true for those power stations that emit pollution, the grid is getting cleaner every year in the UK. Electric cars are very efficient, even my crappy Leaf is much more efficient than any ICE vehicle ever will be, so even if it was true that the pollution is simply moved to power stations, there is less pollution emitted overall and I’d rather that pollution was in an out-of-town power station than on a busy school street.
So many benefits to owning a full electric car, zero tailpipe emissions, cheaper to run, less CO2 emitted, lower maintenance, better driving performance, no need to stand at the petrol/diesel pump while filling up and they certainly smell a lot better than petrol and diesel cars. Really looking forward to 2020, so many more compelling full electric cars available. I’m sure many more will make the leap and never go back.
My tuppence:
- Given that fully half of the emissions generated by any vehicle (whether an EV or an ICE) in its entire lifetime are generated during its manufacture, and before it rolls off the sales forecourt, the only sensible choice, if you must drive a metal box on wheels, is to run yours into the ground before replacing it.
- The same goes for all technogadgetry and widgets, such as mobile phones, for instance. If they ain’t broke, why ‘upgrade’? If you do so purely for status or the ‘feel-good factor’, perhaps you ought to reconsider your motives and put the planet first. Yes, I’m aware this is irrelevant to EVs, but I said I’d offer tuppence :P
Yes you are right about CO2 on new and old cars. EV cars can run on green electric ice just add more CO2. The other more important is the other gasses and particulates from ice. Most of these do create health problems. People say catilitic converters stop these gasses but only after five to ten miles. The best thing is to stop use of cars and use push bycicles.
I've owned a PHEV since 2016 and have now replaced the other car with a full EV . It took a while to pluck up the courage and so far it's been the best decision ever (despite the lack of support for EV owners). I did a lot of research and managed to find a car which suits my needs. It can do 180 miles on one charge (has a 48 kWh battery). More in summer, less in winter. We mostly use it (and the PHEV) as a daily runabout and they charge slowly off our solar panels - we seldom need both at the same time, so whichever has the least battery charges while we use the other.
It's done 2 long trips in the 2 months we've had it, one was 300 miles and the other 150. Provided you do your homework and get a car which can rapid charge (>50kw) and plan your journey, there really is no limit to where you can go. Who can really drive more than 100 miles (2 hours) without a break? A 20-30 minute rapid charge should add 30-40% or so, which will get you another 100 or so miles, by which time you really should take another break.
There are sub £30K cars which can do 200-250 ish miles on a charge and the infrastructure is improving. Make sure you get a car which can DC rapid charge if you are going to do long trips (sorry Zoe) and don't think you need a massive battery. 250 miles is probably the sweet spot, but you're paying a lot for that extra 50 miles and how often do you really need it?
It's not as hard to drive an EV now and it's getting easier, so stop dithering and just do it!
Hi everyone,
We have an OVO account and a Kia EV6 that can ‘vehicle to load’ supply energy to external sources. What’s the best way to set up a charger/feed in tariff that allows us to plug in when we get home (typically 4pmish with the kids) and use/sell energy during the evening peak and then recharge at night?
Ideally it would be a charger that’s compatible with solar PV later.
AFAIK the EV6 has V2L (vehicle to Load) and doesn't support V2H (vehicle to house) or V2G (vehicle to grid). That means you can run appliances from your car by plugging them into the car (via an adapter and a 13amp plug). You can't connect your car to the house electrical system and you can't export electricity from the car to the grid.
There are bi-directional car chargers on the market but these require a car that can support V2H or V2G.
That’s really useful. Thanks so much for your reply.
