I've found this thread really interesting as a non-EV owner, though I have some experience of a battery bicycle! The range is limited, but it is useful, especially in hilly areas.
I currently drive a fairly old but economical ICE car, and use a bike for short local journeys where the fuel economy of the car is less good. Over the period of a full year, between services, I can get high 50's mpg. Based on the fuel energy in a litre of fuel, the cost of travelling a mile in energy terms is around 0.8kWh. Obviously on short journeys that figure can easily double.
I was interested to see the figures for miles/kWh posted earlier in this thread, of 3.8 or 4 miles/kWh, so around 0.25kWh per mile. That is about 75% less than my best effort in an ICE. Obviously a lot of the fuel energy in an ICE is lost, just as it is when generating electricity by burning fossil fuels. However if green electricity is used then the environmental benefit and energy efficiency of EV is even clearer.
I'd be interested to hear of EV drivers experiences of driving in hilly areas. How much does that dent the performance or range of the vehicle, and to what extent is energy recovered when going downhill?
Does anyone have, or used, any type of electric moped? I did read somewhere a while back that they had been widely adopted in Taiwan.
I'd be interested to hear of EV drivers experiences of driving in hilly areas. How much does that dent the performance or range of the vehicle, and to what extent is energy recovered when going downhill?Last year we drove back to Lincolnshire from Teignmouth in Devon. There's a large hill when leaving Teignmouth and I was driving a 30kWh Nissan Leaf with one passenger. To get from Teignmouth to the A380 is 5.4 miles. That took about 10% of the battery. I made Gordano Services (another 79 miles) with just a few miles of range left. Cold and headwinds also affect the range. That Leaf would do about 110 miles of mixed driving in the summer dropping to about 90 in winter with the heating on.
I've found this thread really interesting as a non-EV owner, though I have some experience of a battery bicycle! The range is limited, but it is useful, especially in hilly areas.
I currently drive a fairly old but economical ICE car, and use a bike for short local journeys where the fuel economy of the car is less good. Over the period of a full year, between services, I can get high 50's mpg. Based on the fuel energy in a litre of fuel, the cost of travelling a mile in energy terms is around 0.8kWh. Obviously on short journeys that figure can easily double.
I was interested to see the figures for miles/kWh posted earlier in this thread, of 3.8 or 4 miles/kWh, so around 0.25kWh per mile. That is about 75% less than my best effort in an ICE. Obviously a lot of the fuel energy in an ICE is lost, just as it is when generating electricity by burning fossil fuels. However if green electricity is used then the environmental benefit and energy efficiency of EV is even clearer.
I'd be interested to hear of EV drivers experiences of driving in hilly areas. How much does that dent the performance or range of the vehicle, and to what extent is energy recovered when going downhill?
Does anyone have, or used, any type of electric moped? I did read somewhere a while back that they had been widely adopted in Taiwan.
Remember when you go up an hill often you come back down
View this video to see the effects of going up an hill, dramatic loss of battery resource but all is well in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SEs9I9sptw&sns=em
I've found this thread really interesting as a non-EV owner, though I have some experience of a battery bicycle! The range is limited, but it is useful, especially in hilly areas.
I currently drive a fairly old but economical ICE car, and use a bike for short local journeys where the fuel economy of the car is less good. Over the period of a full year, between services, I can get high 50's mpg. Based on the fuel energy in a litre of fuel, the cost of travelling a mile in energy terms is around 0.8kWh. Obviously on short journeys that figure can easily double.
I was interested to see the figures for miles/kWh posted earlier in this thread, of 3.8 or 4 miles/kWh, so around 0.25kWh per mile. That is about 75% less than my best effort in an ICE. Obviously a lot of the fuel energy in an ICE is lost, just as it is when generating electricity by burning fossil fuels. However if green electricity is used then the environmental benefit and energy efficiency of EV is even clearer.
I'd be interested to hear of EV drivers experiences of driving in hilly areas. How much does that dent the performance or range of the vehicle, and to what extent is energy recovered when going downhill?
Does anyone have, or used, any type of electric moped? I did read somewhere a while back that they had been widely adopted in Taiwan.
Remember when you go up an hill often you come back down
View this video to see the effects of going up an hill, dramatic loss of battery resource but all is well in the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SEs9I9sptw&sns=em
Thanks for the link. It certainly looks like things are developing rapidly.
When I retired and no longer needed to drive over 360 miles a week I searched for an EV solution for my next car. Most journeys were local and less than 25 miles with the occasional need for a long distance at holiday times. It was the apparent disarray with multiple EV charging vendors and their payment methods that put me off going for a fully EV solution so I researched a Plug in Hybrid alternative.
To cut a long story short I ended up buying a VW Passat GTE estate which provides acres of load space, comfort and performance. I already had solar panels so it made sense to try and charge the car during the sunniest hours (quite rare at moment). I also find my visits to petrol stations are now very infrequent.
I find I can get purely electric range of 30 miles in summer dropping to about 20 in the recent extreme cold but normally about 26 miles. I appreciate that on longer journeys the 1.4 petrol engine is pulling the extra battery weight but I am getting around 70 mpg.
An unexpected observation is the extra wear on the front tyres which I put down to the impact of regenerative braking on top of front wheel drive.
Since Nissan introduced their 30kw Tekna, a couple of years ago, I became very confident in taking longer journeys, even to Cornwall and back. There was always a charger available at the service stations. I must point out that I was not so comfortable with my first 24kw. Recently I ordered a 40kw Nissan. To prepare myself for European driving I ordered a dongle for Europe last year, because of the availability of charging points, over there.
Arthur, a committed EV driver.
I have had a Leaf for 15 months. Charging at home at 15p per unit works out at 4.5p per mile. Charging at Genie points ( and others) costs double. Genie is 30p per unit and £1 connection charge. it works out at 10.5p per mile. A 50mpg petrol car is about the same. Charging points need to be more reliable. I did a 175 mile journey recently which should be comfortable with one stop. When I got to Dorchester the 50kw charger was not working and I didn't have enough to get me to the next one. I had to go to the local Nissan dealer and use their 7kW unit. It took me almost 5 hours to sort it out. Portsmouth has no Rapid chargers. All but one of their chargers are in fee paying car parks. They even have 3kW chargers in paying car parks. It gets very expensive
Sadly, all EVs and Hybrids to my mind are all about unusefulness ( a new word it seems as there are good points and no benefit whatsoever! I'll explain a little, in the main they are not green, the pollution is merely moved to the power station. Ev's have very limited range and are not instantly refuelled. The last time I heard from someone with a Nissan Leaf told me the battery was only rented, at £70 per month!!!!!!!!!!! Then of course because of all the space constraints , you need to buy two EV's to transport, the kids, your wife , the dog(s) and all the paraphernalia to the supermarket and still have space to take the shopping home. All done a bit tongue I know, but is it so untrue I ask?
A bit gloomy. Pollution from a power station is more manageable and would keep the streets cleaner. Nuclear power of course is the best option, no pollution just a little sludge to bury now and again. Renting batteries was an option at the beginning when everyone was nervous about them but they have proved reliable and no one rents them. They have a long term warranty.
And would you need 2 Astras?
Sadly, all EVs and Hybrids to my mind are all about unusefulness ( a new word it seems as there are good points and no benefit whatsoever! I'll explain a little, in the main they are not green, the pollution is merely moved to the power station. Ev's have very limited range and are not instantly refuelled. The last time I heard from someone with a Nissan Leaf told me the battery was only rented, at £70 per month!!!!!!!!!!! Then of course because of all the space constraints , you need to buy two EV's to transport, the kids, your wife , the dog(s) and all the paraphernalia to the supermarket and still have space to take the shopping home. All done a bit tongue I know, but is it so untrue I ask?
Pollution moved to the power station. Yes that is true but that does not make EVs not green. The only case where an EV is perhaps worse than an ICE vehicle is if *all* the electricity is being generated from coal fired stations. This is not the case for the UK.
Moving pollution to the power station is good for the environment where people actually live. It is easier to capture soot and other unwanted pollutants at the power station chimney than from the exhaust of vehicles. I'm sure everyone has seen examples of diesel spewing black soot when accelerating. Do you want to breath that?
re-fuelling time. This one is tricky, does it take hours to refuel overnight while I'm asleep or no time at all because I'm asleep? I don't miss petrol stations with their queues, smell, cost, and diesel on the pump handles.
As the engine in an EV is a lot smaller that an ICE even after the batteries are included there is often more space in an EV than ICE.
I could add some other "negatives" to your list, such as journey times being longer but even then if you plan your toilet and food breaks you can overlap these with charging. The enforced breaks may add to journey time, but you do arrive feeling much more refreshed.
What a great thread I've owned my Audi A3 e-tron for just 2 wks so very new to me. As a slightly mature driver ( passed my test in 1966) I'm one of those lucky females that adores driving ! I can honestly say that after owning an A5 A4 A TT A3 A2 this Audi e-tron puts them all in the shade plus at my age I'm so consumed by energy saving and all environment issues .
What a great forum for all of that thank you all for consuming my time with so much passion. I'm smitten !
A bit gloomy. Pollution from a power station is more manageable and would keep the streets cleaner. Nuclear power of course is the best option, no pollution just a little sludge to bury now and again. Renting batteries was an option at the beginning when everyone was nervous about them but they have proved reliable and no one rents them. They have a long term warranty.
And would you need 2 Astras?
Gosh really amazed that you say this re nuclear.... Hinkley Point to name but one of the most costly white elephants on the planet.
For me I just want to see wind farms everywhere even though the retired army officers in leafy Surrey villages object !
I leased a 30kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna last year. Drove from South Lincolnshire to Keswick and tootled around the area, no problem. Drove to Devon, 270 miles, no problem. I was with Ecotricity from April as they gave me 52 free rapid charges in a year. Cost me £2.40 to get to Devon and back.
Both my daughters live within a mile of a Polar rapid charger. Not owning the car gave me the creeps so younger daughter and husband now use it and I bought a 40kWh Leak 2.ZERO. I can now get to both daughters without stopping. 110 & 135 miles. I therefore ditched Ecotricity and came over to Ovo for the two years subscription to Polar. I've got a 4kW (soon to be 4.6kW) solar system so charging my car is included in the cost of the system.
An academic in the USA, Tony Seba wrote a book called Clean Disruption showing how autonomous battery electric vehicles (AEVs) will be the only ones made by 2030 if governments authorise AEVs by 2021. He has a graph showing the cost of batteries coming down. The tipping point will be US$100 per kWh and once that is reached, battery EVs will be cheaper to buy than fossil burners as well as being cheaper to run and service. His latest videos show the cost of batteries coming down faster than his graphs. He now estimates that EVs will be cheaper than ICE vehicles within five years.
As to electricity generation, new nuclear and fossil burning generation is already more expensive than onshore wind and solar & offshore wind will soon be cheaper too. Perhaps HPC should be binned and turned into a wind farm. The £22 billion in exit costs would be more than worth it in the long run. Solar and batteries in every new build, wind generation plus batteries & V2G EVs to stabilise the grid will make for a far more resilient and cheaper electricity future than dirty fossil burning and potet=ntially lethal nuclear generation.
I leased a 30kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna last year. Drove from South Lincolnshire to Keswick and tootled around the area, no problem. Drove to Devon, 270 miles, no problem. I was with Ecotricity from April as they gave me 52 free rapid charges in a year. Cost me £2.40 to get to Devon and back.
Both my daughters live within a mile of a Polar rapid charger. Not owning the car gave me the creeps so younger daughter and husband now use it and I bought a 40kWh Leak 2.ZERO. I can now get to both daughters without stopping. 110 & 135 miles. I therefore ditched Ecotricity and came over to Ovo for the two years subscription to Polar. I've got a 4kW (soon to be 4.6kW) solar system so charging my car is included in the cost of the system.
An academic in the USA, Tony Seba wrote a book called Clean Disruption showing how autonomous battery electric vehicles (AEVs) will be the only ones made by 2030 if governments authorise AEVs by 2021. He has a graph showing the cost of batteries coming down. The tipping point will be US$100 per kWh and once that is reached, battery EVs will be cheaper to buy than fossil burners as well as being cheaper to run and service. His latest videos show the cost of batteries coming down faster than his graphs. He now estimates that EVs will be cheaper than ICE vehicles within five years.
As to electricity generation, new nuclear and fossil burning generation is already more expensive than onshore wind and solar & offshore wind will soon be cheaper too. Perhaps HPC should be binned and turned into a wind farm. The £22 billion in exit costs would be more than worth it in the long run. Solar and batteries in every new build, wind generation plus batteries & V2G EVs to stabilise the grid will make for a far more resilient and cheaper electricity future than dirty fossil burning and potet=ntially lethal nuclear generation.
IT lifts my heart to read a post like this particularly binning HPC now that would be a great petition ! Yes 22bill the cost of damage limitation but at least we'd have to think about real green power all be it far to late ..
I leased a 30kWh Nissan Leaf Tekna last year. Drove from South Lincolnshire to Keswick and tootled around the area, no problem. Drove to Devon, 270 miles, no problem. I was with Ecotricity from April as they gave me 52 free rapid charges in a year. Cost me £2.40 to get to Devon and back.
Both my daughters live within a mile of a Polar rapid charger. Not owning the car gave me the creeps so younger daughter and husband now use it and I bought a 40kWh Leak 2.ZERO. I can now get to both daughters without stopping. 110 & 135 miles. I therefore ditched Ecotricity and came over to Ovo for the two years subscription to Polar. I've got a 4kW (soon to be 4.6kW) solar system so charging my car is included in the cost of the system.
An academic in the USA, Tony Seba wrote a book called Clean Disruption showing how autonomous battery electric vehicles (AEVs) will be the only ones made by 2030 if governments authorise AEVs by 2021. He has a graph showing the cost of batteries coming down. The tipping point will be US$100 per kWh and once that is reached, battery EVs will be cheaper to buy than fossil burners as well as being cheaper to run and service. His latest videos show the cost of batteries coming down faster than his graphs. He now estimates that EVs will be cheaper than ICE vehicles within five years.
As to electricity generation, new nuclear and fossil burning generation is already more expensive than onshore wind and solar & offshore wind will soon be cheaper too. Perhaps HPC should be binned and turned into a wind farm. The £22 billion in exit costs would be more than worth it in the long run. Solar and batteries in every new build, wind generation plus batteries & V2G EVs to stabilise the grid will make for a far more resilient and cheaper electricity future than dirty fossil burning and potet=ntially lethal nuclear generation.
IT lifts my heart to read a post like this particularly binning HPC now that would be a great petition ! Yes 22bill the cost of damage limitation but at least we'd have to think about real green power all be it far to late ..
Have to say, you make the future sound good, I'm glad for all involved that will use cars then. EV's now however are still too expensive, and residuals are still to be proven for the most part. Charging points are coming but like fast broadband was far to slowly and not where they'll see less use, ie very rural areas where I live. Also at almost 74 years old I'm most likely on my last car, a now 6 year old Skoda Yeti, my mileage is low, less than 4k pa so changing is not something I need to do unless I've money to burn. In fact I could possibly motor more cheaply by using taxis, but I enjoy the driving still and like to think I'm still confident and able. Lets see what the next 10 years brings, it's not that I'm against modern technology, I have an iMac, an iPhone, a Smart 4k TV that I stream to from my iMac that also acts as a TV recorder, and have a roof full of solar panels that my installer tells me can now be rigged to charge EV's for free. So as I said, the next 10 years, for technology, and my capabilities! 🙂
Well I'm 71 and have just had my 218 leaf Tekna for nearly a week! My mileage is a bit higher than the previous poster at about 9K pa. As my daughter said, that's my inheritance you're spending (with a big smile on her face i should add)
The Leaf is an absolutely and amazing car to drive, it's so easy in traffic with the propilot engaged it does all the work for you. Plus I'm saving about £80 a month on diesel, there's no road tax (at the moment) and in the sunny weather i'm charging the car for virtually nothing from the solar panels.
I have no hesitation in encouraging you to go electric, you won't regret it; unless you regularly drive more that 120 miles on a single journey, no problem with charging, do it at home, or during May all the Instavolt chargers are free!
Also at almost 74 years old I'm most likely on my last carAt 68, me too. By the time this one is worn out, we'll have those AEV's all over the place.
have just had my 218 leaf Tekna for nearly a week! I think I may have preferred the Tekna as it has LED headlights and leather seats. That said, I think £1,000 is a bit much for those luxuries. I don't need the Bose sound system as I've got tinnitus and wouldn't hear the benefit.
This it my first EV a Nissan leaf Tekna purchased in March 2017 a used 2014 model it has been a great car.
It suits my needs, mileage about 4000 miles a year mainly local, although we went to Malvern showground In March of this year and done 238 miles from Cardiff and back again.
Charged up at Strensham services on the M5 northbound on the way there and on the way back charged up at Gloucester services M5 southbound both times with ecotricity but did not cost me for charging, it is something to do with not connecting your phone with the charge point.
Outcome there and back the cost was £2.00 it was from my home charger which is mostly run off Solar panels, usual cost per month is between £16.00 and £20.00.
I am with OVO I think they are great company very good support, thumbs up to Darran.
My thoughts on ecotricity charger that it is cheaper to give you the electric, than send out a low loader and driver to take your car to the next charge point.
One other point you really need to plan your route for service chargers, also allow to make sure your car has enough power to get to another service charger in case that charger is not working.
When my first trip out in my Nissan Leaf I did not allow enough power to get to the next service charger and run out of power, then I phoned up Nissan to send out a low loader
You do not make the same mistake again.
@tterb Interested to know how you charged at Ecotricity without using your phone?
Hi @PeterR1947
When I plugged the cable in the car the phone was not recognised by the charger but it still started charging anyway not sure how but it did.
Another chap said that it charge for free for him as well, he was not sure how it happens either.
Brett
I have a BMW i3 which is the best car I have ever owned, despite the criticism over high speed handling it is a surprisingly capable car for quick cross country journeys. Mine is an early BEV, with an official guide mileage of 81 miles. I live in the High Peak, unsurprisingly it’s hilly round here, but these don’t present a problem to progress. Most of the loss in range going up hill is made up descending down the other side. My daily journey into work often finds that my car can do 90 or so miles after setting out with around 80! This is despite covering 14 miles. Last year I drove 87 miles as the first stint of my journey on holiday, a Rapid Charge at a functioning Ecotricity charger on free vend saw me on for the next 67 miles. I arrived at both with 4 miles left, but this has become normal. Even doing this Range Anxiety wasn’t kicking in for me, I knew where I was driving to. Yes I do plan longer journeys. If I was to change my car, it would be for another i3, the 120ah battery functions like an ICE car in reality for most users. The planning tool “A better Route Planner” can take the strain out of much of the planning regarding distance, range, comfort margin, temperature, headwind etc. But if you’re lucky enough to be looking at an ev of any make with a longer range, it isn’t the problem you think it is.
I was in my local Nissan dealer waiting for my Leaf to have its first annual service. I got chatting to the Manager, having seen him arrive at the dealership, in a replica of my own EV. He told me that Diesel vehicles were dead already and that diesel hybrid were close behind. I can see why when greedy Councils are grabbing at the chance to make money by taxing toxic vehicles in the Cities and its going to get worse.
I was so relieved to sell my Peugeot GTi Turbo which I had purchased 12 years ago and still managed to get £2,500 for it. I was so scared of being left with it and not able to get rid of it.
With that said, it was still a fun car to drive and I never tired of it. But my new Leaf Tekna is ten times more fun! Technology has come on so much since I purchased a new car and the acceleration is phenomenal!
And did you know, that demand for EV's is much greater than supply with lead times for new EV's being 4 to 12 months. No wonder then that they are barely depreciating and manufacturers taking the opportunity to slowly raise their prices. The Nissan dealer Manager said that he couldn't sell the showroom model of a new Leaf Tekna, because it would take him at least 4 months to replace it. If he did sell it, he would not have a Leaf to show prospective buyers. What a position for a Nissan dealer to be in!
So because I want the 62Kwt Leaf, I'm trying to sell my present car for just £1000 less than I purchased it for 9 months ago. There is a website called Auto e-bid and they give incredible discounts. A top of the range 62 Kwt Leaf costs some £41,000, but if you can wait 4 months, they will give 16% discount, bringing it down to just under £35,000. Put as big a deposit as you can down and you will have a balloon payment at the end of 3 years of around 30% of the total cost; then finance the remainder with a PCP over 3 years. Easy if you have an adequate credit rating.
Just remember the £1,500 to £2,000 a year you will save in having to buy petrol.
Running costs are 1.5p to 2 pence per mile!
Hi @Jukebox My thoughts exactly although I'm not sure about the 60kWh version, much as though I would like one.
Are you within driving distance of Warwick? If so, there's an independent garage that will servie your Leaf, my first service was £72 as opposed to Nissan's £159; you don't get the "complimentary" breakdown service but I have that through my bank account anyway.
If that's of interest, have a look at www.hybridandevcentre.co.uk.
@Darran_OVO
Peter
