Hi @calli ,

Hmm… This sounds like it would be a pretty complicated job to do. I can certainly see why you’d want to split up the flats to have one meter each which is probably for the best.

I’m assuming you want to completely split them up so that it becomes:

• Flat 1 takes/keeps the first meter
• Flat 2 has the second meter
• Flat 3 grabs the third meter

You didn’t mention whether this includes gas as well, or just electricity. But my guess is that while it probably can be done, there’s some serious work involved in getting you there.

I’m going to summon @Transparent to advise on exactly how you might go about getting those meters installed and set up. He’s great at offering advice here.

My initial thoughts are that it would just be a case of getting the new meters installed and having all the wiring done so that everything goes to the right places, just like how you’d get a brand new property connected and on-supply for the very first time. But if you’re currently on a three flats one meter setup, then it’s going to also have to be a case of pulling the other flats out of the current meter and getting the wiring moved over so that the other meters can be installed.

But here’s the good news for you. And I do mean good news. Once you get the flats split up onto their own meters, signing each one up with OVO will be as simple as signing up just about any other property. But you’d have to get there first.

Do feel free to reply in this thread with any progress updates or if you get stuck. We’ll help you out as best we can.

OK. Let me dive in. What the others have already said is largely true.

It might help if refer to the diagram from the Topic Who Owns What? which goes on to discuss fault reporting.

This shows that the Distribution Network Operator (DNO) is the only organisation which can assign the supply up to the meter.

The DNO takes account of loading on the existing Feed cable, and the prevailing imbalance of phases at the substation. Their priorities are:

1. Safety
2. Minimising losses
3. ensuring adequate capacity for the future

If they have stated that you require a 3-phase connection, then it’s very important that one is provided.

There are numerous tales of woe where a householder has extended the loading on a single-phase supply beyond what was allowed for in the original design. If you want to look for some, try searching for news stories about fires in flats above shops, because it’s a classic problem when the shop owner no longer lives on the premises and he lets the flat to a tenant.

Once you have three separate 100A Service Fuses for each flat, you still can’t get the Energy Supplier to install two more meters.

You will first need a qualified electrician to fit a Consumer Unit for each flat and ensure that the existing wiring doesn’t run between these flats. If this isn’t done properly, then there will be 440v between sockets or lights-circuits within the same room, which is very dangerous.

The electrician will also re-run the heavy-duty (6mm²) cables required for larger loads such as a kitchen (think microwave, toaster, kettle, washing machine and oven) and an electric shower (typically 10-13kW). These cables must not run through insulation or tight spaces where heat cannot escape. If they do, then you’ll require 10mm² cable.

Depending on the connection provided by the DNO there will be a need to install (and check) some sort of earthing arrangement for each flat. Once again, this is a safety issue.

Only then can you get the two new meters fitted. The electrician will provide you with the relevant Part-P certificate (Building Regulations) together with the pages showing the results of his tests. The Meter Installer is likely to ask to see this paperwork. You will also need these in order to insure the flats.

So that’s my overview of what’s required to comply with the Regulations.

As I’m a self-builder I have very hands-on experience of how to achieve the practicalities of this work and minimise your costs. So if you’d like further advice on that, then please ask.

That’s a great answer to a great question.

So if I understand this correctly:

• It is possible to split up the three flats onto their own meters
• A three-phase supply is the safest way to split up the three flats
• Each fuse supplies one flat and each flat has independent meters/consumer units
• Doing it correctly means nothing will go bang in a years time

In which case, that definitely makes sense. Is this something that can all be done in a single day, or perhaps a couple of days as it sounds like a big job? No doubt that three smart meters can be installed on the same day for example, but what about the rest?

Also @Tim_OVO this one might require some help from one of the specialists at the office.

I noticed you mentioned that it is possible to fit new meters for properties where OVO already supplies the customer, presumably because you can do upgrades for example. So if I wanted to get my current meter swapped out for a new one of the same type e.g. from SMETS1 Single Phase to SMETS2 Single Phase, piece of cake right?

In this case however, the rules are a bit unclear as this is a massive edge case. Technically speaking, @calli is already an OVO customer and is getting a supply from OVO on the existing meter. This also kinda means that all three flats are getting a supply from OVO under the same supply/account and I could argue that it does come within the jobs list.

But erm… I’m not sure that this one is as easy as a simple yes or no here… So what happens on that front? (Might also be useful to see if you guys can offer new supply installs in the future btw!)

thanks all

a 3 phase installation is one way to do it but it is really expensive and complex.

as @Blastoise186 rightly says, these 3 flats have been operating for over 10 years on one supply so they really have no need of any extra “juice”, it should be the case, in my mind, that if my electrician prepares the internals, Ovo can take out their current meter and put in 3 new meters instead. I’m probably oversimplifying but why not?

You’re welcome.

It might be a bit of a complex job, but we’ll be happy to offer advice as best we can. Even if it’s a case of you having to sign up the new meters somewhere else temporarily on a Standard Variable tariff and then immediately fire up the switch process to OVO, that’s one possible method.

Ultimately though, you can’t put a price on the safety of your tenants. Having it all upgraded to three-phase and getting a total overhaul might not be cheap, but it’s much cheaper than the costs that could arise if something goes wrong from a bodged job

So that’s this option then, @calli:

Power networks can visit to install 2 new supplies, each with their own single phase cut out, and their own meter. 

Once again, in this scenario you will then need to get a supplier able to create new supplies to visit on the same day, to install the meters

Yep @Blastoise186 we can physically turn up and rip out that SMETS1 smart meter and replace it with a SMETS2. BUT this would come at a charge, as there is no fault to that meter. 

@calli’s situation is different as he requires for NEW supplies to be created. Currently OVO can’t do this, which as @Transparent calls out is a curious situation considering. 

Each meter must be connected to a Service Fuse in one direction and a Consumer Unit in the other.

A Consumer Unit is not itself an expensive item, especially if purchased as a package with all the trips pre-installed:

As yet @calli hasn’t said how the existing arrangement of flats is served by any existing Consumer Unit.

Unless there is a separate Consumer Unit for each flat, with the certification from a qualified electrician, then I can’t see how any Installer would be prepared to put in a meter. It would be in breach of SMICoP regulations. This Smart Meter Installation Code of Practice is the agreement by which engineers working for Energy Suppliers are licensed to break the seals on the Service Fuse without the attendance of the Distribution Network Operator and a qualified electrician on site.

As you would expect, the SMICoP regulations are primarily about safety. This doesn’t just mean the safety of the meter installation itself either. The Government (through Ofgem) are using the Smart Meter installations as an essential opportunity to verify that the gas and electricity supplies to each dwelling are up to the basic requirements.

No Installer could risk connecting a new meter to a Consumer Unit if there was a chance that the wiring somewhere in a flat might not be fed entirely from that Unit.

If they were to do so, then a later intervention by the DNO to run 3-phase into the building would leave the occupants with the risk of there being 440v within a room.

Now I still do have ideas as to how to save money in having this work done. But I cannot foresee any way that the issue can be resolved without the regulations being fully and correctly implemented. The rules are not onerous - they are actually just common sense, and successfully keep us alive!

It’s tricky to find the ‘best answer’ in this topic. 

@calli what do you think? I can copy and paste @Transparent’s advice above on consumer unites, and add that to another comment. Just can’t choose which…… 

Either way great technical advice here from us all! 

@Transparent 

thanks, each flat has a conusmer unit and  has an electric certificate

it’s just that there is only one meter….

Thanks for confirming, @calli 

I’ll be assigning a best answer that combines the best of the advice we’ve given above. 

If you need any more advice though on getting the actual upgrade done, we’ll still be around too. This thread will basically stay open forever, so you’ve got plenty of time to stop by and keep it going. :)

But between this thread being a case of three properties sharing one meter and another thread regarding the complete opposite:

That means we’ve now got two really extreme edge cases covered with some great advice.

And good luck with the upgrades! We’d love to hear about any progress you make with this, since it might even help a few other people out with these puzzles.

@Tim_OVO - did you manage to find out if SSE (now a sister-company) has the certification to install meters in new premises?

This would be another site where such a facility would be needed.

Well that’s partially good news, @Tim_OVO 

But that still means an OVO customer is having to switch to SSE to get a new meter installed, despite the fact that you’re now sister-companies!

Is it too much to ask for a manager at OVO to speak to a colleague in SSE’s Meter Team and arrange to sub-contract any new meter installations?

Hi,

I look after a school that is currently located on a shared site (2 x schools, joined by the main canteen that serves both schools).

The main electricity supply comes into a shared plant room and the invoices come to one of the schools, to arrange a split.

I have asked Northern Powergrid about obtaining a separate connection, so we can monitor our usage, arrange our own supplier, price match suppliers and we have been told this is not possible, due to various reasons.

An Electrical Engineer attended today about a separate issue and mentioned having a Benco Unit installed onto the main electrical supply and then I would be able to have a meter installed measuring our schools use and also be able to choose our own supplier?

Has anybody had any similar experiences, Northern Powergrid aren't being very helpful with our situation.

Howdy @dhh , welcome to the OVO Forum!

That’s actually a really, really good one! I love these. :)

Just so you know, this forum is mainly focused on Domestic supplies, but I see no harm in helping you out with this one. All it means is that most of us might not be quite as experienced in your exact use case. But electricity supplies are just that. Supplies.

I think you’re talking about one of these, is that right? https://www.bemco.co.uk/bemco-new-distribution-boards/

I also found this. https://electricianforum.co.uk/threads/who-is-legally-responsible-for-the-tails-from-a-benco-unit-to-the-meter.34515/

It’s a bit old, but seems like a similar situation. Because of that, you might find these interesting:

These threads all related to somewhat similar scenarios that are probably fairly close to what you’re after. I ultimately suspect going down the BNO route is your best bet. Try asking Northern Powergrid about being a BNO and see if you get anywhere. I spoke to another DNO about this stuff recently, so if you keep getting stuck, let me know and I’ll give it a go with Northern Powergrid for you.

Obviously I can’t act on your behalf, but I can definitely get general information from a DNO if that helps!

Many Thanks for your reply, most helpful

No worries. You’re actually in luck.

I just made a quick phone call to Northern Powergrid via their New Connections Team and got exactly the info you need. I told them everything you told me, and this is what they came back with.

They recommend submitting an application for a NEW Connection and having a site survey done to figure out your options.

You can either do that via https://www.northernpowergrid.com/connection-service or give them a call on 0800 011 3433. This is a direct number to their New Connections Team.

They can then figure out the best way to split the supplies up by creating a new connection for one of the schools, while leaving the other school on a second connection. If you wish, you can also have the canteen split off as well. In some ways, that might be a good idea so that one school isn’t just responsible for the entire electric bill of the canteen, but feel free to discuss that between yourselves. :)

Hope this helps!

Many Thanks for your help, I’ve managed to get more assistance in 20 minutes than I have in the past 3 weeks :-)

Haha, no worries! It’s what we’re here for!

I’m pretty friendly with lots of DNOs and I simply told the agent I’m a forum volunteer on the OVO Forum (which is true because I am!), helping a customer who works at a school (which is also true) and that they came to us (the forum volunteers) for advice.

Works every time! XD

Hi, I own a flat above 2 commercial shops in North Lanarkshire, Scotland. My flat is the entire first (top) floor of the building. Historically, it was 2 flats. I would like to separate it off into 2 flats again so that I can rent out one side and keep the other for my own use (mostly storage).

How do I separate the gas and electricity charges for the new tenant? I could just turn off the gas radiators in the portion of the flat I’m keeping, but I would prefer for them to have a smart meter (pay monthly) for electricity and also gas, if possible? There is only one gas boiler though…

Do I need to get an electrician in first to provide a 2nd consumer unit? Then contact the supplier or DNO? What are the costs involved?

Many thanks for any info.

Hey there @Williwoo !

The first thing you need to do is set up a NEW connection for each of the flats via your DNO and Gas Transporter, then you need an electric/gas supplier to set up meters for them.

You will then need an electrician and a gas safe engineer to do the necessary works in each flat to rewire and replumb everything.

Let me know if you need more advice on this!

Hi

ive read this thread but am no clearer to what the answer is to the original question.

In short I have one main meter that supplies two separate parts of the same flat each with their own fuse board (lets say upstairs and downstairs) I want to tenant upstairs separately to downstairs so each is responsible for paying for its own electricity usage on a PAYG system. What are the options available without the need for a new supply meter & MPAN? 

Hi @Suyos ,

Short answer: NONE exist - you must go with the existing advice in this thread and create completely separate supplies for each flat with unique Meters and MPANs for each one.

Long answer:

What you want to do is arguably dangerous and has basically zero benefit. You and your tenants would merely experience pain and you’re better off letting them manage their energy supplies themselves - you WILL NOT make a profit if you try to resell any of it.

Try this guide as it may help: