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# Nonsensical target for Power Move Plus

Here is the main text from the email that I just received:

### Your Power Move Plus target.

Your personal Power Move Plus target for this event is 0.5 kWh.

Avoid using non-essential electricity between 5pm and 6pm on Thursday 16 November and for every kWh you shift below your target, you’ll receive £3 towards your energy bill.

It is impossible for me to achieve even 1 KWh below the target of 0.5 KWh!

Can any Ovo person, or anyone else for that matter, make any sense of this?

Best answer by Emmanuelle_OVO

Hey @Simon 1402,

From the team:

The credit of £3 per kWh is pro-rata, so if they use 0kWh between 5pm and 6pm on Thursday 16 November they will get £1.50 credit.

### 120 replies

Userlevel 3

You're lucky! My target is 0.2kWh 😐. If we're getting £3 back for every 1kWh, does that mean if I use nothing, I'll get 60p? To use nothing, I guess I'll have to turn off my lights, my TV, my router and my fridge freezer. I won't be able to read a book in the dark and I won't be able to browse the Internet as I'll have no Internet. Just to save a possible 60p (if that's how it works). I've opted in but I think I'll be giving this green initiative a miss.

Userlevel 4

Well my target is 0.1 kWh!??  I cant see how I can even get the 60p lol!

Userlevel 4

My target is 0.1kwh !!! I will be in the dark with a candle. Mine is 0.03 or 0.04 a half hour basics. If i only put a light on its 0.06 or 0.07 on each half hr which would immediately take me over the target set.

As this session is in the original power move time zone i am on my basics in the first place so i have no other room to manouevre.

Yes spotted the £3 instead of original £2.40 good news, but still doesnt get me far.

Using a candle i can get under my target by 0.02 to 0.04 kwh, so assuming part kwh is paid then a credit of 6p to 12p for the whole hr! An extra brussel sprout for xmas🤣

Userlevel 7

LOL. My target is also 0.1 kWh. Guess who won’t be opting in.

We’ve said before on this forum that if you are a low user anyway, and particularly if you are already reducing usage at peak times for the Power Move scheme, then Power Move Plus is not going to be achievable (and so not profitable) for you.

Of course many who have joined Power Move Plus are already doing Power Move, so we will all be in the same boat of having ridiculously low peak time targets.

If they do a trial with a target period outside of the usual peak hours then we may get a highter target for that period and so stand a chance.
(Do a 7pm to 8pm one and a lot of Power Mover’s who have been delaying cooking until after 7 will get a much higher target)

It is interesting to see that they are offering the full £3 per kWh reduction though, they had said it would be £2.40.

To answer the original question:
If @Simon 1402  uses zero electricity between 5 and 6 tomorrow then he would have shifted/used 0.5 kWh below his target and would be rewarded with £1.50.

Userlevel 1

I thought it was a joke when I seen my target as 0.1 kWh 😅 glad I’m not the only one 😂

Userlevel 3

Well my target is 0.1 kWh!??  I cant see how I can even get the 60p lol!

How can anyone be expected to cut back to 0.1kWh? Is there something about this PMP that I'm missing? Are we supposed to cut our usage by 0.5, 0.2 or 0.1kWh instead of using that amount? I don't think so but that's the only way these figures make any sense.

Userlevel 7

Well my target is 0.1 kWh!??  I cant see how I can even get the 60p lol!

How can anyone be expected to cut back to 0.1kWh? Is there something about this PMP that I'm missing? Are we supposed to cut our usage by 0.5, 0.2 or 0.1kWh instead of using that amount? I don't think so but that's the only way these figures make any sense.

Yes that’s the point of Power Move Plus.
I’ve posted more about it’s aims in a post below this one.

Your are not expected to cut back to the target, that target is based on what you already use during the period.

You have to cut back below that target, and get rewarded for how far below it you can get.

Obviously if your target is 0.1 kWh then the most that you can cut from it is 0.1 kWh.
So if you threw the main breaker in your consumer unit and cut off your supply altogether for the target hour then you would be rewarded with 30p.

Userlevel 4

@Gillarms its whatever amount you cut back to get below your target x £3 you will receive. With my basic only of 0.03 or 0.04 kwh per half hr ive literally got 0.02 to 0.04 kwh to reach my target if i dont use anymore than my absolute basic. I might be going for a nightime walk or a walk around supermarket.  Might pay a neighbour a visit🤣🤣 ive opted in just to see what the outcome is and will do a candle for an hr

Blimey, I thought mine was bad but 0.1 KWh. Stupid, stupid, stupid!

Userlevel 7

I think it's a perception issue.

This national DFS scheme (Power Move Plus at OVO) is aimed at getting energy users to move their consumption out of predicted 'capacity emergency' peaks.
Aparently last years trial was quite successful with comercial users.
What they/we are doing now is an expansion trial of how such a scheme might work with domestic users.

But it seems to me that the only people taking notice of it at the moment are the already low users, who to be frank won't make much (or rather won't make enough) difference in any 'capicity emergency'.
That's clearly shown by the low targets we have - what difference will (even thousands of us) shifting 0.1 kWh make to a 'capacity emergency'.

They need to reach thousands of higher energy users who can shift/cut 3, 4, 5, or more kWh use each from the predicted emergency - and somehow motivate them to take part.
This might be sterotyping but I see the problem there being that the high energy users are the ones who don't care (until the system overloads and they get a power cut at which point they will shout).

Userlevel 3

I think it's a perception issue.

This national DFS scheme (Power Move Plus at OVO) is aimed at getting energy users to move their consumption out of predicted 'capacity emergency' peaks.
Aparently last years trial was quite successful with comercial users.
What they/we are doing now is an expansion trial of how such a scheme might work with domestic users.

But it seems to me that the only people taking notice of it at the moment are the already low users, who to be frank won't make much (or rather won't make enough) difference in any 'capicity emergency'.
That's clearly shown by the low targets we have - what difference will (even thousands of us) shifting 0.1 kWh make to a 'capacity emergency'.

They need to reach thousands of higher energy users who can shift 3, 4, 5, or more kWh each - and somehow motivate them to take part.
This might be sterotyping but I see the problem there being that the high energy users are the ones who don't care (until the system overloads and they get a power cut at which point they will shout).

Yes, you're right. As all of us here seem to be low users anyway, we'll never make much difference to capacity energy and, quite rightly, it is the high energy users who should be targeted but it is a bit of a slap in the face that we're already doing what we can but won't get rewarded for it while those who will opt in for an hour every so often stand to get money off their bill. (Yes, I know it's the environment that should be motivating me but I like the odd tenner here and there just like everyone else does 😄).

Userlevel 7

Ah, but the point is that it’s an encouragment to act for the good rather than a reward for doing it anyway.

As with many things you don’t need to encourage those who are doing it anyway,

Your reward is knowing that you are doing good without having to be ‘bribed’ to do so.

Userlevel 4

@Gillarms  a bit like power move being 3hrs every week day to be below a target to get £15 off now, yet a higher user dropping 5kw below their target for 1 hr getting same remuneration if they cared to do it. Bet they would reduce their usage if they were being charged more but then there are bound to be some ethics around that as well. A % target works better for everyone.

Userlevel 7
+2

Here is an example of mine from last year via Hugo

There were a variety of different length events and a variety of different £ per kWh. Hence some of the large numbers for some events.

Userlevel 7
+3

@Ria I’m with octopus on their Cosy tariff for heat pump owners. It has two three hour cheap rate periods and one three hour peak rate period - that’s 4pm to 7pm and it is indeed v expensive - 45p p kWh !! Definitely an incentive to not use electricity for that period.

Userlevel 7

I’m fairly sure that we’re misunderstanding these ambiguous instructions. The FAQs say:

 If you're able to reduce your electricity usage to below your personal target for each event, we’ll reward you with energy credit for every kWh of electricity usage you shift below your target.

This is the same sort of language as in the Power Move instructions. It became clear that there is no requirement to ‘reduce’ or ‘shift’ or ‘cut back’ usage: the reward is calculated solely on the difference between measured usage and the target. The target is derived from previous usage in the same period; in my case, it happened to be the same as the highest value for the target period since the beginning of November.

If like me you’ve been using as little as possible in the Power Move period, you may have been using less than half of the PMP target on some days. In that case, you could use twice as much during tomorrow’s challenge and still earn a reward. No cut back required.

Userlevel 2

I’ve also got the 0.1kwh target. Ridiculous.

I’ll be looking to increase my peak hour consumption over the coming weeks, as that’s what I’m being incentivised to do. It’s the only way I can land myself a more realistic target in the future.

I have also been given the 0.1kwh target 🤔

I clicked my TV on for an hour earlier today just so that I could use less between 4pm and 7pm otherwise I wouldn't have been using anything today as I was out 4pm - 10pm 😆

Userlevel 2

If you are already a low user it’s going to be a challenge to be below your target, unless you want to sit in the dark - but that’s the point - to incentivise people to reduce their consumption during the Power Move Plus event -

If my memory is correct the target is based on your average consumption during the event time period previous 10 weekday days - for example my average consumption for the last 10 weekdays during the 5pm to 6pm period is 0.199 KwH - and I have been given a target of 0.2 KwH for the event today - so to consume less than my target I just need to use less than my average - which I think is reasonable .

It’s not a way to make a lot of money - unless you are normally cooking your dinner , doing a load of washing and heating the house via electricity normally during this time period -

As others have mentioned the co-existing Power Move scheme means that many people have already shifted their consumption outside the 4-7 pm period - meaning that their average use in the Power move plus time period will already  be low and therefore their target will always be low - to get below the target requires some sacrifices.

I think the only long term way  to shift consumption patterns would be to have differential pricing so it’s cheaper in the non-crucial times of the day - If you know it’s going to cost twice as much to do the washing  between 5 and 7 pm then people will start to think about doing it earlier or later.

Userlevel 7

Hey @Simon 1402,

From the team:

The credit of £3 per kWh is pro-rata, so if they use 0kWh between 5pm and 6pm on Thursday 16 November they will get £1.50 credit.

Userlevel 7

I’ve also got the 0.1kwh target. Ridiculous.

I’ll be looking to increase my peak hour consumption over the coming weeks, as that’s what I’m being incentivised to do. It’s the only way I can land myself a more realistic target in the future.

Ah, but -

That doesn’t work because the time period for the next trial may be a totally different time of day. so a different target depending on what you normally use during that period.

Userlevel 7
+2

If anyone does have any suggestions for improvement then one option is to feedback to the National Grid ESO.

It is their scheme rules, not OVO.

Power Move Plus is OVOs name for the scheme.

https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electricity-and-me/esos-demand-flexibility-service

Userlevel 4

Seriously - use 0 kWh!!!???

Userlevel 4

Thanks @Jeffus - that's useful info and link - will be using :)

Userlevel 7
+2

Thanks @Jeffus - that's useful info and link - will be using :)

You could try their general email address even though for some reason it contains the word complaints