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Complex meter set up- Why can't I be Economy 7?

  • 15 January 2024
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I have 2 meters in the property I have moved in to.  One is an RST meter that runs the storage heating.  The other does everything else.

 

My bills the last couple of months have been astronomical so I called Ovo to request to be switched to an Economy 7 (or whatever) tarriff so I can make use of cheaper overnight rates for heating and hot water.

 

After spending what seemed like an eternity getting put on hold and transferred I eventually got through to somebody who said that the ONLY solution they have is to remove the meter for the storage heaters and hot water and never use the heating again.  When I told the agent it’s the middle of winter she said “we can do it in April” as if winter is a one off event that doesn’t occur every year. And of course they also refuse to install a smart meter too.

 

I could not believe what I was hearing!  Do these people live in the real world?  Is that REALLY Ovo’s only alternative to paying a flat rate?  How would that even help???  

 

I swear to god, the customer support team and the “complaints/escelation” people were absolutely clueless and were basically there to put me on hold to go and ask somebody else.  I’m regretting signing up with these jokers.

 

Sorry for the rant but my blood is boiling after that call.

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Best answer by Jeffus 15 January 2024, 19:12

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And just had this emailed to me -

 

“Hello xxxxxx,

I’m xxxx, a Complaints Resolutions Expert here at OVO. I hope this email finds you well. Really appreciate your time and effort contacting us.

As what we have discussed over the phone, we do understand that you want to have an Economy 7 meter. But I would like to inform you that we are not installing an Economy 7 meter from a traditional meter.

If you really want to have a smart meter in the property or a one meter that is working in your property, you need to remove your meter for heating but you can no longer use your heater anymore.

And once your meter for heating as been removed, we can book you an appointment for a smart meter but for a single rate only.

If I do not hear from you by 22 January 2024, I will assume you are happy with the action taken above and close this complaint for you. If this is not the case and we do need to work together more toward resolution, please let me know by replying to this email or call us on 0330 303 5063 (Mon to Fri 9am-5pm). We have a dedicated complaints process so if your complaint needs to be escalated, you can find the process here. We’re here to support you. 

Kind regards,”

 

What exactly IS the point of having 2 meters if not for seperating peak and off-peak use?

 

Am I being spun a line here as this sounds COMPLETELY bonkers?

 

And of course they also refuse to install a smart meter too.

Blastoise186
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Hello,

Please post photos of your current setup and we’ll try to advise.

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Thank you.  I swear I was losing the will to live talking to the agents on the phone.   Top right is the meter running the heaters and hot water.  Centre is the other one.

 

 

Blastoise186
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Thanks, that helps a ton.

This looks like a type of setup that OVO is currently working on a migration path for. I strongly recommend you make no changes right now - OVO will contact you when a migration path to something like Economy 7 is ready.

I will try to find out the latest status, but please bear with me as I need to go via forum moderators and this may take a few days.

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Thanks.  In the meantime I’m going to try and call Octopus to see if it’s something they will support.  I suspect I’d make my break contract fee back withing a couple of months.  Ovo’s attitude really rubbed me up the wrong way.  Suggesting somebody takes out a meter and lives without heating and hot water is something you should never be hearing from an energy company.

 

Customers should also not be stuck paying higher rates because suppliers haven’t pulled their fingers out and sorted out their processes and/or have not been installing smart meters.

Blastoise186
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Octopus doesn’t realistically support your setup very well I’m afraid. It looks like THTC - and only OVO can support that properly.

You might be able to go elsewhere, but the caveat is things may not be easy.

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Looks like i’m in for a cold winter then.  What’s the point of 2 meters of nobody supports it?  Mental!  This industry needs a huge kicking from the regulators.

Blastoise186
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It’s being worked on. Support for migrating you is expected this year iirc.

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I don’t get it.  It’s not as though Economy 7 isa new concept or these are a new or unusual kind of meter.  Why is this an issue now when people have been able to get off-peak power in the past?  Sorry, not having a pop at you, just frustrated with the idiocy of the industry at large.  I appreciate you taking the time to respond.

Jeffus
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And just had this emailed to me -

 

“Hello xxxxxx,

I’m xxxx, a Complaints Resolutions Expert here at OVO. I hope this email finds you well. Really appreciate your time and effort contacting us.

As what we have discussed over the phone, we do understand that you want to have an Economy 7 meter. But I would like to inform you that we are not installing an Economy 7 meter from a traditional meter.

If you really want to have a smart meter in the property or a one meter that is working in your property, you need to remove your meter for heating but you can no longer use your heater anymore.

And once your meter for heating as been removed, we can book you an appointment for a smart meter but for a single rate only.

If I do not hear from you by 22 January 2024, I will assume you are happy with the action taken above and close this complaint for you. If this is not the case and we do need to work together more toward resolution, please let me know by replying to this email or call us on 0330 303 5063 (Mon to Fri 9am-5pm). We have a dedicated complaints process so if your complaint needs to be escalated, you can find the process here. We’re here to support you. 

Kind regards,”

 

What exactly IS the point of having 2 meters if not for seperating peak and off-peak use?

 

Am I being spun a line here as this sounds COMPLETELY bonkers?

 

And of course they also refuse to install a smart meter too.

This may not speed things up and may not sort things out... 

While you are waiting to chat to Octopus and waiting for OVO to come up with a longer term solution you could simply now ask the complaint team to issue you with a deadlock letter and ask them not to close the complaint as you are going to the Ombudsman.

The ovo response is basically a deadlock anyway. But no harm in asking for it. If they refuse to issue a deadlock letter then simply go to the Ombudsman anyway with that reply.

https://www.energyombudsman.org/

It may simply be the Ombudsman says you have to wait 

The one surprising thing is that you appear to have a THTC setup but are not on a THTC tariff and haven't been offered a THTC tariff so something doesn't feel quite right.

In case there is anything useful in here.

https://www.homeenergyscotland.org/switching-restricted-thtc-single-meter-electric/

 

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First I’ve heard the term “THTC” so that’s something to look into.  Thanks.

 

The Ovo reps I spoke to completely struggled to understand the concept of storage heating in the first place so they’re heads would probably explode if I brought that up 😂

Jeffus
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First I’ve heard the term “THTC” so that’s something to look into.  Thanks.

 

The Ovo reps I spoke to completely struggled to understand the concept of storage heating in the first place so they’re heads would probably explode if I brought that up 😂

I can't be certain as there are various setups.

But what I said still holds. Am surprised you have been put on a tariff for that meter setup rather than a standard tariff

It may not speed things up in terms of switching the meter but you may be able to get a more appropriate tariff for your setup in the short term.

I also suggest you speak to neighbours and see what setup they have or have switched from in case that helps inform what to do.

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It looks like THTC night-time rates are almost as expensive as my current any-time rate and the normal unit-rate on the THTC tariff is FAR higher rendering the entire plan utterly pointless.

Jeffus
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It looks like THTC night-time rates are almost as expensive as my current any-time rate and the normal unit-rate on the THTC tariff is FAR higher rendering the entire plan utterly pointless.

You are not the first to highlight that.

At the last ofgem price cap change on 1st Jan others have said the increases on parts of the THTC tariff have been surprisingly high.

You could get an electrician to look at your setup and see what needs to be done to get it ready for an E7 smart meter if the current setup was removed.

The next price cap kicks in 1st April but is calculated by ofgem using data up till 15th Feb. At the moment, no guarantees, the cap overall is due to fall as wholesale gas prices have fallen dramatically which impacts electricity prices. But that doesn't help you over the main winter period.

It is frustrating for customers of all suppliers as the deadline for removing these types of meters has been pushed back several times. Regular posters on the forum like @Blastoise186 ask ovo for updates on a regular basis.

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Hi all. I joined this forum to ask if OVO have a better tariff than Economy7 with Octopus.

Until a week ago I had two dual-rate meters ie each had two registers with a Radio TeleSwitch which triggered the second register for the seven night hours at 00:30 (01:30 in the summer).

I pushed to get a Smart Meter as I have read that the BBC are turning off the RTS signal at the end of March so the meters wouldn’t register the night use  

One of the two meters fed a Nightstor (thermal store) - a cabinet of ceramic bricks that charge up at the cheap rate and the heat is then used in a traditional wet pumped radiator system  

There is a modern day version - look up ZEB zero emission boiler  

I am still on E7 and the Smart Meter has a “5th port” which powers on at the lower rate time to charge the Nightstore. 
 

So today I phoned Octopus to see what tariff I could have with a lower cost than the 16p/ kWh E7 as they advertise tariffs as low as 7.5p - but it seems you have to own an Electric Vehicle to have those tariffs even though I have a similar need of up to 60 kWh which I can take in three hours  

I spotted this thread so thought to contribute here 

 

 

Blastoise186
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I don’t have any THTC or RTS setups myself as I’m on regular flat-rate with a Smart Meter. However, as some of the other forum volunteers know, one of my forum specialities is metering related stuff. The RTS Shutdown is something I’ve been watching over closely and I do indeed ask OVO to give me regular updates about what’s happening - this helps me give the right advice and - where needed - update my own content accordingly. The forum moderators also help me with that task as well - you’ll sometimes see their notes on my comments for that reason.

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Hi again

So does anyone know please of a tariff that is a lower night rate than Economy7 ?

I need it for about four hours and don’t mind when that is as long as its the meter “5th port” that powers on for the period

Here is my before and after ...

 thanks

Blastoise186
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Apologies @Sallen1 , but there aren’t any I know of unfortunately.

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Apologies @Sallen1 , but there aren’t any I know of unfortunately.

Thanks - just one more thought though

If I had an Electric Vehicle and got one of those sub-10p/kWh tariffs, would I be able to charge up my thermal store at the same time ?

Blastoise186
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Not guaranteed. While you’d definitely be allowed to charge up the thermal store on the standard rate no problemo, the EV rate might be restricted to EV’s only.

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Jeffus
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Apologies @Sallen1 , but there aren’t any I know of unfortunately.

Thanks - just one more thought though

If I had an Electric Vehicle and got one of those sub-10p/kWh tariffs, would I be able to charge up my thermal store at the same time ?

With ovo anytime no.

With Octopus Go or Intelligent Octopus Go then definitely yes.

The Octopus tariff has a low rate for the whole house and the EV overnight. 

The OVO tariff only a low rate via credits for the EV. 

Lots of people do something similar to what you are wanting with Octopus but charging batteries at home and their EV. Some have thermal stores and EVs.

Some customers have signed up to Octopus Go without an EV and just battery storage, but you may find Octopus have tightened up their criteria.

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Thank you. I wonder if there is some “subsidy” or other incentive / obligation for the energy companies to provide cut-price electricity for EV’s specifically. 

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