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I see a press release about "Heat Pump offer" for lower tariff for heat pumps?

  • 6 October 2023
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@Jeffus Interesting. I wonder if Scotland and England are materially different. I am about to see if I can find figures for up here but if over half of installations up here are rural then my sources are way wrong. I’ll report back when I know.

 

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@Jeffus Interesting. I wonder if Scotland and England are materially different. I am about to see if I can find figures for up here but if over half of installations up here are rural then my sources are way wrong. I’ll report back when I know.

 

The government down here produce monthly stats on their website

You may fine something similar in Scotland.

It obviously depends on what is classed as rural although the off grid stats are a good indicator 

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/boiler-upgrade-scheme-statistics

I haven’t looked myself but there might be some interesting stats on the MCS dashboard that covers the UK

https://datadashboard.mcscertified.com/Welcome

Also there might be some interesting stats related to Energy Performance Certificates which give an idea of the quality of homes across the UK in terms of insulation to see if Scotland is similar to the whole of the UK.

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@Jeffus  I’ve spent the last couple of hours down a deep rabbit hole entitled Scottish Government statistics and reports. I’m no wiser about rural retro-fits but I finally found this:

“10. The Scottish Government should continue to work with the UK Government to support heat pump deployment through energy market reforms.

Whilst recognising that this is not a devolved area, there is a clear need to rebalance gas and electricity prices which currently give gas an unjustified (in carbon terms) price advantage which commercially disadvantages heat pumps in on-gas areas.

The different regulatory regimes for gas and electricity are part of the reason for this; most of the regulated social and environmental levies are made on electricity rather than gas, increasing electricity's relative price. A rebalancing of these costs through action of the UK Government and Ofgem is urgently needed to address this issue.”

Someone agrees with me :-)

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@Jeffus  I’ve spent the last couple of hours down a deep rabbit hole entitled Scottish Government statistics and reports. I’m no wiser about rural retro-fits but I finally found this:

“10. The Scottish Government should continue to work with the UK Government to support heat pump deployment through energy market reforms.

Whilst recognising that this is not a devolved area, there is a clear need to rebalance gas and electricity prices which currently give gas an unjustified (in carbon terms) price advantage which commercially disadvantages heat pumps in on-gas areas.

The different regulatory regimes for gas and electricity are part of the reason for this; most of the regulated social and environmental levies are made on electricity rather than gas, increasing electricity's relative price. A rebalancing of these costs through action of the UK Government and Ofgem is urgently needed to address this issue.”

Someone agrees with me :-)

This is a good breakdown of what are known as Policy costs or Social and Environmental levy.

It adds about 13.5% to electricity and 3.6% to gas for someone using the TDCV Typical Domestic Consumption Value of energy. So the percentages will vary by customer.

I agree it makes sense to shift some of these, but they will end up going back onto electricity longer term once gas is phased out. The Warm Home Discount will still exist. It is a bit like EVs, it is only a matter of time before taxes on EVs are increased to cover the loss of fuel duty.

There would also have to be some safeguards for high gas vulnerable users if their bills increased but nothing is impossible.

There has been some analysis on what the shifting would mean.

The following screen shot of a document updated every couple of months

 

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@dr_dongle I had mentioned today being the day to look out for news from OVO. An announcement will be made tomorrow here on the forum.  

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Announcement detected.

 

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 @Blastoise186 It is indeed. This is a difficult one. Firstly, this will make a welcome difference to me personally since I’m installing Valllant AroTHERM so I have to set that aside. I welcome anything that makes the heat pump market a level playing field and this removes a large bump. What we still have is OvO using their dominant market position to provide discounted tariffs only to their business partners and I still think that is wrong.

Now, if a major insurance company offered discounts to customers who installed a particular manufacturer’s burglar alarm then you could argue that they had assessed the company’s alarms and concluded that there was a lower insurance risk if those alarms were fitted. In that case you could see the connection (even if it was actually a behind-the-scenes financial deal).

Here it is very difficult to see anything more than a financial back-hander to OvO’s business partners. OvO might argue that it is in everyone’s interests to have good products competently installed but that is surely where MCS comes in.

So there it is, I approve of levelling the market and I hope that it doesn’t stop there. I still think that the governments should work with OfGem and energy suppliers so that tariffs aren’t a barrier to anyone installing a competent sustainable heating system and that those people aren’t penalised by paying a hidden levy to others to keep burning fossil fuels.

Two-and-a-bit cheers to OvO and I’ll pass the link on to others (without my opinions :-) )

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Hi @dr_dongle I’m glad to hear you’re in a position to take advantage of our Heat Pump Plus add on with your Vaillant heat pump. 

 

I must say I do disagree with your point here, although I’m not an expert and speak mainly from the point of an observer and not on behalf of OVO:

 

What we still have is OvO using their dominant market position to provide discounted tariffs only to their business partners and I still think that is wrong.

 

I would say that OVO, like other UK energy suppliers with the technology they have, work with manufactures to unlock smart tariffs where possible. It’s a collaboration and can't be done without work from both sides. I’m thinking EV manufactures and Charge Anytime in the case of OVO. 

 

We’re dependent on the manufacture unlocking the integration and on our teams’ capacity to do the work on our side. You can see a list of eligible EV makes and models here. I bet OVO want the list to be bigger, it’s growing bigger, but OVO are reliant on what the EV manufacturer allows and on OVO’s capacity to do the required work. 

 

I would suggest the same applies to heat pumps and Heat Pump Plus. For anyone with a non-Vaillant heat pump, there is work needed from the manufacturer and from OVO to integrate together as well as a desire to make it happen.  

 

I’d welcome your thoughts, as well as that of experienced non-Vaillant heat pump owners @juliamc and @M.isterW who I believe are on a smart tariff with another supplier for their heat pumps…  

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As I understand it the Aerotherm has suitable inbuilt meters which make it possible to report the electricity used by the heat pump, thus OVO can bill that usage at this ‘type of use’ tariff. 

I’m on Octopus Go which is a time of use tariff; for 4 hours a night it’s 9p/kWh, the rest of the time it’s 31p/kWh. It’s aimed at EV owners and those 4 hours are when we charge the car, I also run the dishwasher and washing machine and the hot water heating cycle then.

I believe if you have the correct kit Octopus Intelligent Go gives further cheap rates for the EV but our charger isn’t compatible. So it’s not just OVO presenting deals restricted to their business associates. Things have to start somewhere!!!


Octopus Cosy didn’t work for us. It took too much intervention and as its only me checking the clock and setting timers etc I found we were getting frazzled trying to manage it.

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@Tim_OVO I’ve been looking at the technology behind SMETS2 meters, Dual Band Communication Hubs (DBCH) and interworking. There’s quite a lot of technology there and ensuring seamless working between a particular heat pump (EV chargers too) and variable tariff smart metering is non-trivial. I think that if the announcement had said that the new tariff was available to compliant equipment vendors rather than just a bilateral business deal then I’d have been more positive. (it could still be a convenient excuse but I’ll believe not).  So, it is a welcome development and hopefully we’ll see more of the same.

Today 06th Feb the press are reporting OVO are cutting electric kw price for OVO customers that have heat pumps, i do not have a heat pump but would like to ask why i must subsidise those that do, is it even legal for OVO to give preferential prices to heat pump users.

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Hey @bobc,

 

Is this what you’re referring to?

 

 

Suppliers are legally allowed to offer different plans for customers. For example smart meter tariffs where customers are rewarded for going smart, online only tariffs, electric vehicle tariffs, Economy 7 etc. Some suppliers might even offer cheaper rates to new customers. 

 

There is an environmental benefit to customers being encouraged to adopt green technology. 

 

I assure you, you aren’t subsidizing those that do. The price cap will hopefully be reducing later this year which means the market will return to offering more competitive plans and prices, I’m sure there will be plans out there that are beneficial to each individual set up. 

I would disagree when you say we are not subsidizing these heat pump customers, we are also subsidizing EV owners which seems rather crazy.

I think it fair to say that the less well off OVO customers will not have heat pumps or EVs yet the customers that do get cheaper electric.

 

IIm disgusted that the heat pump plus tariff is only if you have a Vaillent Heat Pump. They must have struck a deal which is beneficial to them but with not a jot of concern for their loyal customers.Ive been with OVO for years and have recently had a ASHP installed but it's Samsung so ,despite the years I've been with OVO, I'm shut out of this tariff simply because of the make of my pump. I wonder how legal this can be,? But no way can I stay with a company that treats loyal customers so badly . I'm leaving for a company that seems to care for its customers.

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I’d say it’s very legal, especially if the heat pump manufacturer has locked down their stuff so that no-one else can touch it at all, or if OVO hasn’t been able to get them to play ball.

From what I’ve been told, Vaillant is just the first manufacturer to have said yes. Others will likely follow over time.

TBH it’s unwise to make a terrible experience at launch just to try and make it work with every possible setup. It’s better to start with one and make it an amazing experience, then build up by adding a couple more that are just as good until you can support everything. That’s good design!

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Hi @Marlais 

 

One of our volunteers, Blastoise186 has left some helpful advice here on this already but I just wanted to add a couple of things onto that advice.

 

We’ve already got some helpful topics on this and I wanted to link to these:

 

 

In a similar way the EV manufacturers have to work with us in order for new EVs to be compatible with Charge Anytime, I would suggest the same applies to heat pumps and Heat Pump Plus. For anyone with a non-Vaillant heat pump, there is work needed from the manufacturer and from OVO to integrate together as well as a desire to make it happen.

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