I have FIT with new battery and inverter, do I have the right meters?

It’s not a matter of wired correctly, it’s whether you as the customer were aware that the current wiring isn’t optimal from a FIT perspective

I believe ​@David49 had his incorrectly wired but most others weren't aware of the loss in FIT using a single AC/DC inverter. I certainly wasn’t..

Is that the cheapest way to get around this problem....I was hoping I could just take a battery wire out out the inverter.😁

I now think I've noticed that when im using battery energy that is going back on generated export meter, is that right...it seems to be and then that doesn't make it as bad as I first thought.

If part of your solar/battery goes to export, that’s normal but not the same as generated. Only generated counts for FIT (except if you also have an export tariff). Not all battery supply goes to export (or shouldn’t).

If you’re on SEG rather than FIT then you don’t need to bother with a generation meter. 
 

Edit - are you talking about the Export reading on your bi-directional meter? If so, then yes, your battery output adds to this figure. The problem is that any input from the grid adds to the Import figure and this will be a higher number than the Export. (You never get as much out of the batteries as you put in). Therefore your Net figure can decrease and this is the reading that your FIT provider needs

Yes im talking about bidirectional meter, I never realised the battery being used counts towards export , and losing a few k/w is better than I first thought happened. So one final question, if my panels generate 20k/w in a day but 10k/w goes into the battery, im presuming the 20kw goes on the export but then when I use the battery thats added to the export as well, so therefore your getting paid twice for that. Is that correct. Thanks for your informative help BPLightlog 

Unfortunately not.

The export reading on the bi-directional meter only counts what is ‘used’ and therefore whatever goes into the battery doesn’t add anything to that until it gets used - hence you ‘lose’ a little from the losses in the system when whatever is in the battery gets used.

Thank you, I've only had my battery 5 months and finally know how if works. Thanks for your help.

Good chat here. ​@ScottyWigan  just be aware you may think it's only a few KWs here and there but if you recharge your batteries to 90 or 100% during autumn and winter you'll put quite a dent into your export meter reading and it's quite normal for it to effectively go down /backwards as the bi directional meter export side isn't fixed.

Summer is fine as you're always generating plenty and some folks turn off ac battery charging altogether. But the batteries are there to be used so I take advantage of the cheap rate overnight of 7p and charge to 90%. Only FIT we don't get paid for export just generation. 

If you're bored you can probably work out your losses and try and predict how much FIT you may lose running everything off the one inverter 

KL

Thanks so much for all your help here ​@BPLightlog ​@David49 and ​@kanulondon, great work 😁.

​@Brimar23 I’ve added the Energy Storage and Solar badges to your Forum account. I’m sorry to hear of the issues you’ve been having and I hope Ofgem can help you get this all resolved. 

​@ScottyWigan I’m happy you’ve got more of an understanding now about the battery.

Hi All, I have joined this forum, to try and get my head around this same issue, It appears to be very complicated and I would just like someone to explain in simple terms for me.

I had a FIT installation for which I get 20.38p per Kwh generated and 7.39p deemed export. 

I have just had the following installed 3 days ago.

11 Aiko Panels 475w, Sigenergy, 10kw batterys x 2 and sigenergy 8kw Inverter.

I know its not the best time for producing solar but in the last 2 days I have produced 9.57kwh shown in the app.

I have been charging 100% overnight at 15.8p per kwh on Octopus flux this gets me through the day to around 20:00 when it goes back onto the normal rate of 26.34p per kwh, I am not yet able to export anything to the grid, although I do have an export MPAN which Octopus are setting up on my meter.

My New meter is bi-directional, and currently shows Imp 52.6kwh ; Exp 41.8 kwh : Net -10.7

Do I need to get this rewired so that I do not have a minus for my Fit ? or do I stop charging altogether and leave the battery at 12% where it is now and just pay the normal daytime rate.

Any help would be very appriciated

Hi ​@Robster ,

it all appears complicated but is fairly simple physics/mathematics really.

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•Robster - 

  I had a FIT installation for which I get 20.38p per Kwh generated and 7.39p deemed export. 

I have just had the following installed 3 days ago.

 11 Aiko Panels 475w, Sigenergy, 10kw batterys x 2 and sigenergy 8kw Inverter

_________________________
Presumably you’ve told your FiT provider that your system has changed? This is important as everything is registered with Ofgem.

_________________________

•Robster - 

 My New meter is bi-directional, and currently shows Imp 52.6kwh ; Exp 41.8 kwh : Net -10.7

_________________________
Many (most?) charge home batteries overnight during winter to get a lower rate usage but unfortunately a ‘Net’ meter sees the charge as negative as you never get as much out of the batteries as you put in:

Battery output  minus  battery input gives you the negative reading.

Depending on your thinking and possibly calculations, you could either forget charging from the grid or (what many have done) get the meter rewired so that it doesn’t see the battery. It’s difficult to give a definitive answer as we don’t know your full circumstances but if you’ve read earlier parts of this thread, you will see that several have decided to get the meter rewired. 

Thanks Lightlog

Read through the whole post twice.

Told my FIT provider (E-on) from the outset, my original FIT generation meter is still live just not increasing, so not connected to anything other than power I am assuming.

I am waiting on my installer to fill out the battery declaration that my FIT provider has requested.

I think I may have to ask my installer if they can retire the system so it doesn’t see the battery, I don’t get as much on the FIT as others so if I lose it then it’s not major but would be nice to keep it as I still have 10 years to run on it.

On the plus side my G99 came back with 8kw export limit 😊

Sorry to dig this up again, but I still cant get my head round this net meter malarkey. Before I got my battery I was getting fit payments for anything I generated but over the winter period when I was charging my battery at cheap rate at night it seems as if it deducts this off my generation... This cant be right because I've already paid to charge the battery ,so why does it come off my net generation reading. Help please....again😁

If you think about it, when you charge the battery from the grid, it’s not been generated (by you anyway). 
The way the system works, anything going through the system gets counted, therefore the grid power needs to be deducted .. that’s what the NET meter does.

The easiest way around this is to get the meter and feed rewired so that it only sees the generated power.

It makes no difference that you’ve paid for the grid power to charge the batteries, it’s the deduction from any generated power that’s needed.

Thanks, still find this stupid though because im being charged twice really to charge my battery,. Im paying to fill it then getting it took off my generation meter....unreal

But don’t you agree that it’s not generated power?

It's only because that part is included in the positive meter reading that it is taken off (only that part)

I do agree thats its not generated...but im not getting the same generation payments as I would if I didnt have a battery. I get paid for what I generate, having a battery should not deduct from that figure...when u say get battery removed is this easy and can I get done of solar payment company...? Thanks again

It’s a rewire of how the battery and solar feed through the meter - ​@kanulondon has had theirs done so might be able to point you in the right direction 

Cheers ​@BPLightlog 

​@ScottyWigan The problem is your installer. The meter being bi-directional is simply doing the maths it was programmed to do. 

I am on a 2010 Tariff, most installers are not coming across folks with other FIT generation tariffs and are therefore not even asking or planning on ensuring the customer is getting the max pay outs. 

If you do nothing, you’ll see a vast improvement in spring summer months but I calculated that I was losing 1.5 or so KW every day in losses. I calculated it all in this thread….

As mentioned if you want to go back to EXACTLY how it was prior, you need to re-wire  to ensure your Hybrid Inverter is not connected to your generation meter. I actually installed a new grid tried generation meter to run my panels. No AC ever comes up the new bi directional meter. It only counts up the way

Problem solved. My new inverter is on different circuit and manages my batteries. I am actually adding more solar to the hybrid meter to charge the batteries. It won’t affected my generation meter as it’s on a different circuit

WBW

Thanks for your reply...I will mention this to my installer and hopefully he will be able to do.

Thanks for your help on this one ​@kanulondon and ​@BPLightlog 🤝.

​@ScottyWigan I hope this is making more sense now - it’ll be great if your installer can get you set up like ​@kanulondon, and you save more money going forward.

​@kanulondon thanks jumping on this thread again and offering such great advice. This may well help others who see the thread as well. I’ve awarded you the ‘Solar Savvy’ profile badge for the handy info you’ve provided. I’ve also updated your profile with the battery badge as well.

Cheers!

Thanks ​@Ben_OVO much appreciated. 

Definitely a frustrating problem but once fully understood workarounds are possible 

Have a great day