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Who owns what - your guide on cut outs, meters, fuses and who is responsible

Who owns what - your guide on cut outs, meters, fuses and who is responsible

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Userlevel 1

Certainly, here it is. Though now you mention it, I’ve no video of him removing it from the enclosure. This does, however, suggest he opened the enclosure and examined it.

I do understand the learning process, and indeed Ovo have quickly adapted some of their processes for a Covid world with new compliance checks at booking of appointments. It does seem that there’s resistance to change here and I have to say it’s one of the most frustrating and time consuming issues I’ve ever experienced.

 

Userlevel 1

Thanks @Tim_OVO . I think next on my list is to contact the HSE. As of next Tuesday it will be 28 days since reporting an observed B11 issue with my supply head. Having suggested before on several occasions that my electrician is well placed to speak about the installation and been brushed off, I don’t want to waste my time further. As always you have my contact details on file if you have any solutions to propose.

Userlevel 7

As always you have my contact details on file if you have any solutions to propose.

 

I’m arranging a call to you, @killicrankie 

 

 

So that still means the highest priority is the Category-B11 (fused neutral)…. for which I’d like to see a photo of the Service Fuse carrier in the context of the whole board if possible.

And that would be the most instructive/helpful upload to this Forum thread. I think we’d like customers to become more aware of the ownership and condition of their board using their eyes (no tools!). So pics uploaded to this Topic will help steer us in the right direction.

 

:point_up:  :ok_hand:  :spy:  :nerd:  this would be handy! 

Userlevel 1

Hi @Transparent , yes indeed. I can only apologise for the limited and poor photo. I expect my electrician wasn't expecting to have to prove himself. I'm reluctant to pay for an extra visit.

Perhaps the Ovo engineer has better documentation of the visit and if there are photos of the installation proving their opinion we could get copies. All I have see to date from them is a screenshot of the "report" with about 6 or 7 fields and no images.

As you'd expect the fuse enclosure is now sealed and I can't get a picture of the parallel fuses, nor prove they are fuses over links. That being the case, is there any value to a wider picture of the whole board?

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Well I’m imagining that your fuses are sited within an old cast-iron box with an interlocked switch. If so, then there’s still value in uploading a photo of that enclosure on the back-board.

Then in months to come, if another end-user has a similar box, they’ll have an idea of whether it needs to be reported to their DNO for possible investigation and replacement.

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

That’s just what we need to see @killicrankie 

So that looks to me as if it’s a cast-metal box containing the cut-out fuses. That’s an asset failure with Category C06.

I’m not entirely sure of the earthing wires in the photo and whether your house has a PME supply (earth provided via the Neutral). But it’s possible there’s also a Category B10 fault present if the metal casing isn’t earthed!

As an aside, DNOs also think differently about what you fix to “their” back-board. You’ve actually got your PV isolator on the DB Board!

Having once had my knuckles rapped for fitting an extra 100A switch disconnector next to my meter, I now tend to keep all “my” hardware away from the board to which the DNO’s equipment is fixed.

In this case I think they’ll ignore it. There’s plenty of actual fault-codes to keep them entertained. :wink:

Userlevel 1

Thanks for this @Transparent ! If categories were collectible it seems like I’d be close to the full set.

I do have a feeling that my sparky may well have mentioned earthing with regard to the incomer but couldn’t swear to it, and that this would normally be dealt with in the head replacement. In any case, he said the B11 was the most important issue to highlight and that it would get the issue dealt with promptly. Lol.

Userlevel 7

Please keep us updated after we reach out to you and get things resolved. It would be great to hear from you about this, so there’s a conclusion to this topic. 

Userlevel 1

Hi @Tim_OVO ,  I didn’t get any call from you or Ovo generally as yet with any kind of solution. This leaves me with reporting this to the HSE tomorrow as previously advised.

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

That bitumen leak might be the clinch argument, @Adiavel

Have a look at page 47 of the Faults and non-Compliances document. Category C-02 non-compliance is where bitumen has leaked but is not currently doing so. But there’s a particular note to say if the leak is still occurring, then the fault category gets raised to A-01 (the highest safety alert).

By all means post a photo here, but you’ll have to decide if you think the leak is happening now by seeing if the bitumen is soft/tacky. It’s indicative of the fuse getting too hot. There’s a good description on page 13, where A01 is described.

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Sorry to hear this @Adiavel

I have been present at three meter installations by OVO engineers when they broke the seal on the Service Fuse and changed the tails. They are permitted to do so under the MOCOPA Agreement.

I’ve also discussed the situation with my own DNO, with whom I enjoy good communications on technical issues. They said that they commonly change the tails to the meter when upgrading the Service Fuse… unless it’s obvious that the tails have recently been changed, as would be the case if a Smart Meter had been installed.

In either case, the tails themselves are simply regarded as the “side issue” to the change of meter or fuse. That makes sense, and errs on the side of safety.

This topic is primarily concerned with safety issues. If the DNO changes the Service Fuse for any of the 33 categories listed in the Faults and non-Compliances document then it also most likely that tails would be changed too.

You haven’t given a reason as to why you want the Service Fuse changed to 100A, so I don’t know if this is related to a “non-compliance”, or merely that you’d like more amps available.

I’m not in SE England, so I don’t often get to speak with UK Power Networks. Their policy may well be different. But it seems overly pedantic that they will not change the tails when they’re booked on-site to attend to their fuse.

Userlevel 7
Badge +5

Hi @Adiavel - we’ve just started this Topic to discuss these issues.

There are several parties responsible for different parts of your electricity supply. Customers find it tricky to work out who needs to do what and in what order.

In your case OVO are correct. The Service Fuse upgrade comes first. As you say, it’s the responsibility of your Distribution System Operator, UK Power Networks.

It’s possible that the DNO will also change/upgrade the meter tails at the same time. That depends on their engineer’s assessment whilst he’s on site. These decisions are made primarily on safety grounds. Even if you posted a photo here, I doubt that Forum Members could adequately evaluate the construction of the tails and their condition without handling them.

Please post again if you’d like to make further comment. That’s what the Forum is for!

Userlevel 1

Hi there,

I have just been canceled  by OVo the appointment with the engineer on 6th of August to upgrade my meter tails as I am looking to upgrade the main fuse from 60 to 100Amps with UK Power Network. 

Because of that I had to cancel their appointment too.

Very upsetting all this.

Anybody had recently any similar experience of upgrading meter tails with OVO or they are just pretending to do it but never actually getting it done?

Userlevel 3

Hi @Adiavel, I think @Transparent is correct when referring to this particular topic when discussing your query.

 

I’ve moved all of your comments over to this existing topic to keep everything in one easy to find place, which will mean other users will be able to get their hands (and eyes) on it.

 

Some great back and forth information here, and it would be extremely beneficial for us to hear more about your journey. Please continue to update this thread if and when you learn more about the process.

 

Have a great day,

Userlevel 7

Yep some more really interesting questions about who should be doing what and when here. It’s clearly a grey area so I have a feeling this topic might be getting A LOT of action!

 

Thank you for sharing, @Adiavel - if you have any doubt as to what the next steps are from OVO’s side, we’re on FacebookTwitter and our Help centre has online chat! It would be really handy to hear back from you when you notify the DNO, so we know what next steps they’ve advised…?

 

Nice advice once again, @Transparent - you’re the most knowledgeable non-engineer we have as part of this community! 

 

 

Userlevel 1

He will split the meter tails and from the splitter he will feed both the house CU and the summerhouse CU. For summerhouse, a 16mm armoured SWA cable will leave the splitter, running on the ground along the garden fence towards the summerhouse to its CU.

Hopefully it is ok.

While the main fuse will be 100Amps and the meter tails need to be upgraded  to 25mm, I hope the 16mm Cable going to the summerhouse it is ok too, even if those kind of cables can carry maximum of 80amps, much more than the summerhouse will ever need at one time.

By my calculation both CU's added will never draw more than 80Amps at one time from the main cut out fuse. 

So if they got one and they agree to fit it than I will be very happy indeed.

But maybe they will see that my fuse box needs replacing so there is a chance to have actually the meter tails changed by them along with a 100Amp fuse, which will set the house ready for charging an EV vehicle in the future too.

They are UK Power Network, maybe different from DNO, hopefully everything will go as planned.

I will keep you updated.

Thank you for your reply, Transparent.

And finally, I received the appointment email from OVO for upgrading  the meter tails which now is 3 weeks later than the initial one...I lost faith they will do it, so I am trying to go ahead with the UK Power Network appointment if they will allow it.

Thank you again.

 

Userlevel 6

You’re welcome, @Adiavel, please keep us updated, the outcome of this may be very handy to other members.

There’s a post here that you and @Transparent might be able to shed some light on. 

:blush:

 

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