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V2G Tariff, Smart Meters, and Solar Panel Export Payments - how does it all link up?


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I am hoping someone from OVO will be able to help me with this.

With your new (upcoming?) V2G tariff which pays for exported energy:

1) Does this work with a smart meter (SMETS2?) which keep track of 'exported' energy kWh via a separate reading? Therefore it's counting both the EV car's exported energy and the solar panel's exported energy together?
2) Would someone with solar panels therefore be paid by you on the basis that they're outside of the FiT scheme (opting-out or never registered for FiT export payments?)
3) Does the solar panel energy have to first be 'fed into' the V2G car battery, and then exported out to the grid via the V2G connector, or e.g. when the car isn't connected to the charger and is out on the road, and there is excess solar energy being produced at home, would that energy be exported and counted by the smart meter directly and would this exported energy still be paid for by you regardless?
4) Is it a REQUIREMENT that we have an EV car and/or purchase an EV charger from you, in order to sign up for this new tariff?

I purchased a property a few months ago and the previous owner, for whatever reason, never registered for the FiT and it's no longer possible to do so as the system was installed prior to 2016.

Therefore I'm not registered for export payments, and it would be nice if via an innovative energy company and a smart meter-based export meter, I would be able to get paid for exporting this energy to the grid.

I am looking to possibly get an EV car in the next two years, but it's not an immediate priority, hence why I'm wondering if EV car ownership is an absolute requirement to join this new tariff of yours.

Many thanks in advance for any answers!

Updated 09/03/2020

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Best answer by Hari_OVO 11 January 2019, 18:14

Hi @Rishi the Fox,

Thanks for your message, it's a very interesting topic - and certainly one that is going to become more and more relevant given the recent government announcement that they would be removing FiT export payments on solar installations that take place after April - more on that here.

I'll answer your last question first, as it's probably the one that you're most keen to know the answer to, and there is a very short answer, which is yes. Unfortunately, in order to receive export payments, you will need to be part of the Vehicle-to-grid trial, and therefore own a Nissan Leaf.

We measure export reads via your smart meter, irrespective of whether it is a SMETS 1 or SMETS 2. And yes, you're absolutely right, it will measure exported energy regardless of whether it is from your car or solar.

We will give customers an export credit, on the condition that they have opted out of any FiT export payments that they may have previously been receiving. Customers with solar panels will receive a net export payment of 2p per kWh exported, which is less than the 6p per kWh for non-Solar customers. The reason behind this is as you've said, some of the power will have come from your solar panels, and some will have come from the V2G charger.

I hope this goes some way to answering your questions? Let me know if not, or if there is anything else, I'll do my best to help!

Thanks,

Hari
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Hi @Rishi the Fox,

Thanks for your message, it's a very interesting topic - and certainly one that is going to become more and more relevant given the recent government announcement that they would be removing FiT export payments on solar installations that take place after April - more on that here.

I'll answer your last question first, as it's probably the one that you're most keen to know the answer to, and there is a very short answer, which is yes. Unfortunately, in order to receive export payments, you will need to be part of the Vehicle-to-grid trial, and therefore own a Nissan Leaf.

We measure export reads via your smart meter, irrespective of whether it is a SMETS 1 or SMETS 2. And yes, you're absolutely right, it will measure exported energy regardless of whether it is from your car or solar.

We will give customers an export credit, on the condition that they have opted out of any FiT export payments that they may have previously been receiving. Customers with solar panels will receive a net export payment of 2p per kWh exported, which is less than the 6p per kWh for non-Solar customers. The reason behind this is as you've said, some of the power will have come from your solar panels, and some will have come from the V2G charger.

I hope this goes some way to answering your questions? Let me know if not, or if there is anything else, I'll do my best to help!

Thanks,

Hari
Userlevel 1
Hi @Hari_OVO and thank you so much for your helpful reply!

Your reply does indeed answer the bulk of my questions on this topic. It's always seemed crazy that there could be people out there generating electricity, feeding it onto the grid, and yet not receiving any kind of credit or payment for that. Utilities and DNOs pay generators for the electricity produced and fed onto the grid - if individuals are slapping solar panels on the roof and providing that energy to the grid, why shouldn't they receive payment for it too, given the energy produced will then be resold for a profit?

The recent news that the government are looking to legislate for utility companies to pay export payments is wonderful news, and hopefully should open up a lot of exciting possibilities for people who are generating electricity and feeding it back, regardless of how it's produced.

I'm not surprised your V2G tariff is only open to Nissan Leaf owners at this trial stage. However, would it be reasonable to assume that once the tariff is complete, you intend this tariff to be open to the public, and anyone is free to sign up for that tariff, that it won't be limited to Nissan Leaf owners?

Also, would it be fair to say Ovo will be looking to introduce export credits more broadly after the government's latest announcement?

The tying-together of EV car and solar generation, EV and home battery storage, smart meters and export payments opens up a lot of exciting possibilities for individuals... to generate and to import electricity during 'off-peak' periods, charge up the car, store it for use at 'peak' consumption times, and then discharge the surplus onto the grid during peaks when it's needed most in exchange for payment.

We live in exciting and innovative times. :)

Kind regards,
Steve
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Can I just add to what @Hari_OVO has said, @smithsmithers ?

Whilst there is no specific regulation about V2G chargers, there are rules about what can be connected to the mains supply of your house.

Any device which is to feed power back onto the supply must be certified to one of

G83 - a generic device which is limited to 16A/phase (about 4kw)

G100 - a generic device which actively constrains a source of microgeneration to no
more than 16A/phase at any given time

G59 - a bespoke installation using items that are not already pre-certified to G83 or G100

These standards now need to have a new one added.

In order to better balance the local distribution network (and hence minimise losses within the sub-station) we require devices which can react quickly to push or pull around 40A/phase on/off the grid.

If you read the spec of the Home Storage Battery which OVO are designing, you will note that it has the potential to operate at 10kW. This could be restricted within its software to feed a maximum 16A onto a domestic single-phase feed, and hence be certified to G83.

However, it would be much more useful if it complied with a new G-standard and was permitted to operate up the full 10kw, depending on the phase-imbalance at the local substation. This obviously requires a monitored sub-station in order to work.

The technology for this exists, but the regulatory framework doesn't.... yet!
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Hi Steve @Rishi the Fox ,

They are indeed exciting and innovative times - we're really looking forward to rolling out our V2G trial this year and see how those who are on the trial get on with it. The feedback we get will be crucial to whatever comes next!

People who generate electricity via their solar panels at the minute do receive a 'deemed export payment' - as exports aren't specifically measured via your solar panels generation meter, exports are assumed as 50% of the total generated, and as part of the FiT scheme you're paid 5.14p/kWh exported. It's really unfortunate that the previous owner of your property didn't register for the FiT scheme, I can't work out why they didn't!

But yes, this export payment will cease for customers installing new solar panels later this year. Unfortunately I'm not aware of what our plans would be around offering export credits beyond the V2G trial, so that's a tough one for me to answer!

I am really positive about the future of V2G though. As you say, it has the potential to open up a lot of exciting possibilities. As mentioned above, we're hoping to use our upcoming trial to test, learn and then move forward - so what the future looks like for us in the V2G space is still not completely defined either!

Sorry - probably haven't been able to give you as clear cut answers as you might have hoped for! Anything else, do let me know!

Hari
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Hi @Hari_OVO and @JimTraynor. I have followed the basics of your discussion, but not the detail of the maths itself.

I think it is difficult to settle these points because the current offer from OVO to pay 2p or 6p per Kwh is an interim strategy, based on the tenet that a customer still has an annual contract for electricity.

This falls a long way short of the Demand Side Response which BEIS (UK Government)and Ofgem require Energy Suppliers to offer in the future.

The true value of an end-user offering power back onto the grid cannot be adequately encapsulated by such a primitive notion of a fixed payment per kwh.

Nor does our current domestic market encourage customers to use electricity at times when there is a financial benefit for them to do so.

Adding solar micro-generation to single-phase supplies over the last 20 years has increased sub-station losses from just under 5% to 10% due to phase imbalance. This is deplorable. No country can afford to fritter away energy like this, especially with society now facing Climate Change emergency measures.

Over the past few months I have enjoyed the privilege of monitoring a local substation and watching the temperature rises in the windings due to harmonics and phase imbalance. Note here the differences between the three phases, and particularly the lower consumption on the "yellow" phase where more solar-panels are operating on sunny days:



My conclusion is that these losses can readily be addressed, saving us the equivalent of two new power-stations. Storage technologies have a major part to play in the solution.

Have a look also at this other Topic where I've just written about the problems of over-generation in the Westcountry, and how we're all paying for this.

OVO is in a very strong position to provide products required to implement a true Time Of Use tariff. I would urge the company to progress more speedily in that direction rather than trying to offer kludges by way of fixed-rate pence-per-unit feed-in payments.
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I'd like to add a further positive update to what you've asked@Rishi the Fox :

The amount that OVO can credit a customer for supplying the grid will change as the algorithms used to calculate this get developed.

Electricity tariffs are composed of three elements:
  • the buy-in cost of the energy to OVO (assessed each half-hour)
  • the network charge payable to your DNO
  • OVO's profit
Each customer has their own network charge notified to OVO, which is used to generate your bills. The present system means that most residential customers in the same region have the same charge. So all OVO's customers in Exeter will be "C1" or whatever.

However, DNO's are now required by Ofgem to reduce system losses under a scheme called RIIO. Their future revenue is directly linked to their success. RIIO-ED1 (Electricity Distribution, Phase-1) is shortly to be replaced by RIIO-ED2 which will require DNO's to take active steps to change the way its customers use the network.

Much of the technical loss (ie not including theft!) is due to imbalances at the sub-station level. Phase imbalance manifests itself in heat and noise emitted from the transformers which step down from 11kV.

However, less than 100 of the 240,000 substations have any monitoring installed. So DNO's try to diagnose imbalances and overloads by generating stats on reported faults and batch-analysis of those of us with Smart Meters.

Customers who have installed solar-panels onto single-phase domestic supplies are the major cause on increased technical losses. Worse still, because the electricity is generated during the day when many home-owners are out working, the over-generation isn't used locally, and gets passed back up the line to the area-stations (32kV) and the national network (132kV).

In future DNOs will need to change the Network Charges for customers according to how much loading or relief they provide to the Distribution Grid.

So a householder with Storage Batteries and/or an EV (with a V2G charger) will find that their network charges get lowered if they provide access to their stored charge when there are demand peaks.

Equally, homes that are particularly burdonsome to the network may see their network charges increased.

So the lower 2p /unit that @Hari_OVO has just quoted for credits if the home has solar panels as well as a Home Battery, is likely to rise. The key is that the DNO needs to be able to call on that power when it is required.

In many cases, the homes with PV and Batteries will be given the most credit because their energy hasn't ever had to travel down the Transmission Grid in the first place.

Does that make sense?
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HI .@Rishi the Fox
I think it sounds like the previous owners of your house went for one of the free solar installations if you let the installation firm have the Fits payments, under these circumstances you only get any electricity you can use when generating.

That would explain why they didn't register for Fits and means that a company somewhere is getting your Fits payments.
Rregards to all Pete
Hi i just move to London and i have a couple of questions.

1) I am really interested in the vehicle to grid (V2G) and i would like to know what is the government regulation about it. I didnt see any news about it in the last months...

2) I would like to know what are the legal documents where the government talk about the self-consume regulation.
How it works for example if i have solar panels? how it works if i use my car´s battery for supply my home?


i would like to read this regulations and legal requirements.

Thank you so much and good work! i like so much your idea! keep on it dudes!
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I've moved your post over here, @smithsmithers, you'll be able to see how V2G works with solar panels.

In regards to your legal query, I'm not sure about this - hopefully @Hari_OVO can help with this! 🙂
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Brilliant feedback, @tready. Let me just tag @Hari_OVO to make sure he sees this!

You are absolutely correct to raise this issue. There's more to being on the V2G Trial than just observing the functionality of the hardware. The Tariff system is equally important.

I'm a member of a community group who are involved in an Ofgem-funded project on the Distribution Grid. Ofgem are well aware that it's no use changing the regulatory structure that underpins our energy usage without first checking how ordinary members of the public might respond to that.

That's why it's so important to have ordinary people like you involved in Trials. What actually happens is that people change their habits because they realise that they can "play the system" to arrive at a better outcome for themselves.


You are quite correct to charge your car elsewhere and then export whilst at home. That's a direct consequence of the Trial Participants having a flat-rate Tariff. It makes financial sense from OVO's viewpoint, but it penalises you. Consequently you are actually better off being at the pub in the evening and not offering any stored charge back to the Grid to alleviate the time of peak-demand.


Let me expand further on this point with a wider scenario for @Hari_OVO and his colleagues to mull over.

Suppose 'Fred' has an EV with a V2G charger at home. His employer thinks this is a great idea and installs a batch of them in the employees car-park using a Government grant. Employees will be able to charge at 5p/kWh, and the company is to earn 8p /kWh for any exports. Brilliant!

Fred dutifully plugs in his car each day, but configures the App to only allow his EV to be charged.

At the end of his working day he drives home 20 miles, plugs in his EV and earns 10p /kWh as a result of his contract with his Energy Supplier for grid-connection during the time of evening peak-demand. Fred configures the App to leave enough charge for the return trip to the office in the morning.

At the end of the year, the company goes through an audit. The Accountant tells the Employer that the yield from his rank of V2G chargers is lower than expected. But it's not a big problem because he can write off the charger installation against tax.

The Annual Accounts are filed with Companies House and HMRC.

A month later, Fred receives a form from HMRC querying his personal tax return. They want to know if he has unearned income which he hasn't declared, and are investigating an issue of Employee Benefits.

Fred phones HMRC to tell them what he has been doing and offering to pay tax if any is due. However, he points out that the Company scheme was installed with a grant under a Government initiative.

The following week, Fred is at work when he is called to the MD's Office. Another man there introduces himself as Detective Sargent Jones, and cautions Fred because he's under investigation for theft of electricity from his place of employment.



Now what?!


This is what happens if technology gets introduced without people like you providing OVO with genuine feedback!

That's why what you are saying is more important than you might realise.

... and, finally, could you please fill out your Forum Profile. I'd be interested to know the rough area you live in. V2G technology will provide greater benefits in some areas of GB than others.

Thanks.
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Hi Jim,

I can certainly see the logic behind your calculations.

I think a key thing here though is that, while your solar panels are generating energy, it is not guaranteed that this energy will always be consumed by your car. The V2G charger will charge based on grid signals rather than focusing primarily on when your solar panels are generating energy. As such, it may be that when your solar panels are generating energy, if you aren't using this in your home or your charger isn't using it to put power into your car - the solar energy will be exported out to the grid. We'll be paying you for these exports at the rates mentioned previously.

Thanks,

Hari
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Hari,
It is certainly true that we will not be in control of when the power is taken by the grid, but I believe that we will be able to decide when our battery gets charged. We will of course have to avoid periods when the grid is very busy and needs to take power but apart from these times we will be able to set our system to charge the car battery when the sun is shining as much as possible. I do this at present and it just takes a little effort.
All our discussions on pricing have been based on yearly average figures and I believe that the system I propose will result in the car being charged as much as possible with the generated power and on average the vast majority of generated power can be made available to charge the car or be used in the home. You are, of course correct in saying that there will be times when the power generated is not needed by either but I believe that on average this will be a low percentage of the available generated power. remember that the max solar system which receives FIT is 4 Kw. In fact the average generation from such a system will rarely, if ever, produce more than enough to fully charge my 24 Kw car and this will be even more of a factor as car batteries get larger capacities as they are already doing.
This means that even on sunny summer days very little is likely to be available to feed to the mains and for at least 9 months of the year 0 Kw will be available.
Surely this means that the reduction from 6p to 2p cannot be justified.

Jim
Userlevel 2
I have prepared a spreadsheet shown under to calculate the returns from a V2G system with and without a 4 Kw Solar Panel system.
If you set up a copy of this you will find that the returns highlighted indicate that the system with solar panels gets much lower return unless the percentage used to charge the car battery is very low.
I would have thought that OVO would want to produce the opposite effect in order to encourage the adoption of 2 systems which contribute to an improved climate rather than play one off against the other.
Any feedback would be appreciated.
A B C
1 Solar Generation (Kwh) Elec Cost (£/Kwh) Solar TIF payment
2

3

4 0.1429 0.0382

5 0 0 0
Variable A5*B4 A5*C4

6 3500 500.15 66.85
Variable A6*B4 A6/2*C4

D E F
1 Assumed Export Assumed % of export used by car charge Assumed export from car(Kwh)
2 24 Kwh battery car (% avail)

3 50 50 50
Variable Variable Variable
4

5 0 4380
24*F3/100*365
6 1750 875 3505
A6*D3/100 D6*E3/100 F6-(D6-E6)

G H
1 Export Payment (no Solar) (£/Kwh) Export Payment (with Solar) (£/Kwh)
2

3

4 0.06 0.02
Variable variable
5 262.80 87.6
F5*G4 F5*H4
6 145.79
(F6*H4)+((D6-E6)*(H4+B4))-C6)

Jim
Userlevel 2
Your program has reformatted my entry and made it unreadable as a spreadsheet.
A1, B1 etc are all headers:
A1 - Solar Generation (Kwh)
B1 - Elec Cost (£/Kwh)
C1 - Solar TIF Payment
D1 - Assumed Export
E1 - Assumed % of Export used by Car Charge
F1 - Assumed Export from Car
G1 - Export Payment (No Solar) (£/Kwh
H1 - Export Payment (with Solar) (£/Kwh)

F2 - 24 Hour Battery Car (%)

D3 - 50 - (variable) This is the percentage of generated power not used in the house
E3 - 50 - (variable) This is percentage of power not used in the house but used to charge car
F3 - 50 - (variable) This is the percentage of the car battery assumed to be available for V2G

B4 - 0.1429 - (fixed) current cost of electricity in my area
C4 - 0.0382 - (fixed) price paid for the assumed 50% feed in (lost if V2G used)
G4 - 0.06 - (fixed) Price paid for V2G if no solar
H4 - 0.02 - (variable)Price paid for V2g if solar also used

F5 - 4380 (24*F3/100*365)
G5 -£ 262.80 (F5*G4) This is the payment received from the V2G system with no Solar Panels
H5 - 87.6 (F5*H4)

A6 - 3500 (variable)
B6 - 500.15 (A6*B4) This is just the money saved by not needing to pay for this electricity.
C6 - 66.85 (A6/2*C4) This is the money saved by having Solar but forfeited by V2G
D6 - 1750 (A6*D3/100) This is a variable amount generated but not used in the house -
E6 - 875 (A6*E3/100) This is a variable depending on how much the car is charged at home
F6 - 3505 (F5-(D6-E6)) This is how much energy from the battery is used by the V2G system
H6 -£ 145.79 ((F6*H4)+((D6-E6)*(H4+B4))-C6) This is the payment received from V2G system combined with solar Panels

Please check out and comment.

Jim
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Hi @smithsmithers - sorry for the delay in getting back to you...

There's no specific government regulation around V2G, however, the Energy Networks Association (ENA) does provide guidance on exports and the use of micro-generation equipment, like solar and V2G, here.

Thanks,

Hari
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Hi @JimTraynor and @Pipc72 - more info about FIT Payments here.
Can I just add to what @Hari_OVO has said, @smithsmithers ?

Whilst there is no specific regulation about V2G chargers
, there are rules about what can be connected to the mains supply of your house.

Any device which is to feed power back onto the supply must be certified to one of

G83 - a generic device which is limited to 16A/phase (about 4kw)

G100 - a generic device which actively constrains a source of microgeneration to no
more than 16A/phase at any given time

G59 - a bespoke installation using items that are not already pre-certified to G83 or G100

These standards now need to have a new one added.

In order to better balance the local distribution network (and hence minimise losses within the sub-station) we require devices which can react quickly to push or pull around 40A/phase on/off the grid.

If you read the spec of the Home Storage Battery
which OVO

are designing, you will note that it has the potential to operate at 10kW. This could be restricted within its software to feed a maximum 16A onto a domestic single-phase feed, and hence be certified to G83.

However, it would be much more useful if it complied with a new G-standard and was permitted to operate up the full 10kw, depending on the phase-imbalance at the local substation. This obviously requires a monitored sub-station in order to work.

The technology for this exists, but the regulatory framework doesn't.... yet!


Thank you so much, that is so interesting.

If you dont mind i would like to ask more things because i have no idea about it and i want to install something in my house.

  1. How works the selfconsume in United kingdom? I mean if i install solar panels or i use the battery of my car for supplying my home, I need to pay any backup toll? there are any restriction for the selfconsume?
  2. What happend if i dont have a FIT tariff and i inject energy into the grid?
  3. There are subsidies for providing real time energy adjustments into the grid? i readed that in norway they are going to pay for this service
Thank you so much @Transparent 🙂 and @Hari_OVO
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That's a massive subject @smithsmithers !

And it's one where there will both overlap and differences between my views and @Hari_OVO's.

The whole domestic energy market is changing towards Demand Side Response which will be operated using half-hourly time-of-use (HH TOU) tariffs on SMETS2 Smart Meters.

The way in which we have subsidised the installation of solar panels on houses with single-phase supplies is now working against us. These cause phase-imbalance at the sub-stations which results in energy being lost as heat. Losses have increased from around 5% to 10% in the last 20 years.

Moreover if you were already to have used up all the 16A/phase capacity of the G-standards on solar panels, then you would be forbidden to have any other grid-connected device such as a V2G charger. That's hopeless, because the V2G capability could've been used to flatten out the peak demand in early evening and reduce substation losses!

This is a subject I'm hoping I'll hear more about from @Hari_OVO on the OVO VIP Open-day (17th June) because he's on the guest-list!

I don't know where you live because you haven't yet filled out your Forum Profile, but if there's any way you could be there, then I'd recommend it!

In the meantime, have a look at what I've written here on the Forum about the OpenLV substation monitoring trials.
Userlevel 1
Can anybody from OVO help me with the above? Surely there’s a way to earn some export income from these solar panels?
Userlevel 2
I have 3 questions.
  1. When will people like me who live in Scotland, have solar panels, receive the FIT payment and own a 24 Kw Leaf be able to join your scheme?
  2. Why are Scottish people being prevented from joining now?
  3. If Rishi's FIT payment is going to the firm who installed the system (which is very likely) will this firm have to cancel the FIT claim before Rishi can join your scheme?
Jim
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@JimTraynor the key thing here is that we will pay you your import unit rate + 2p for every kWh of energy exported, regardless of whether that is from your solar panels or your V2G unit.

Assuming your unit rate for importing electricity was £0.16p/kWh, you'd be getting £0.18p/kWh exported.

So, in your case - if you assume that you continue to export the same kWh's from your solar panels, under the V2G scheme you would be getting:

(3500/2 * 0.18) = £315 - from your solar exports

instead of

(3500/2 * 0.0382) = £66.85 as you currently are under the FiT scheme.

You would also be getting:

6570 * 0.02 = £131.40 - from your V2G charger exports

In reality, we would take a total export read from your smart meter each month rather than splitting it out as above, but the same calculation still applies as you'll be compensated much
more for exporting via solar than you currently are.

I should also note here that we will be measuring your actual exports rather and giving you an export credit based on this, rather than giving you a deemed export payment from solar, so doing a like for like comparison may not be 100% accurate.

Appreciate that's not necessarily straightforward to digest but let me know if that makes sense?

Thanks,

Hari
Userlevel 2
If I understand correctly customers will be paid 6p per Kwh for energy taken by the mains and effectively returned at no cost. Based on car battery sizes I would guess that this COULD result in an income of about £1 per day. Since the main aim is to help the environment rather than make money this is OK.
However I find it hard to understand why customers with Solar panels are to be paid 2p per Kwh. This means that they will get only 1/3rd of the income of others for the same input of electricity and in addition will be paid LESS than the current 3.82p per Kwh that they currently get for feeding excess generation into the mains.
The result of this would result in an effective loss of more than half of the income if the FIT payment was paid for generated electricity as at present and the V2G power treated separately.
I understand that OVO do not want to pay 6p for the generation which currently gets 3.82p but based on my own generation figures and an estimate of V2G figures I would be being paid almost nothing for taking part in the V2G scheme.
I seriously want to take part in this scheme in order to help the environment but surely the returns being offered are far too low.
I currently get approx £60 per year for FIT, at 2p per Kwh I would get approx £40. The return of approx £18 (at 2p per Kwh) would not quite give me the original return. These figures are only estimates but certainly show that any return for V2G plus solar would at best equal the current FIT payment.
If the full 6p were to be paid the result would be an over payment of approx £20, hardly worth complicating the system to save this from the minority who have solar panels, but if a special rate has to be used this should be approx 4p per Kwh to allow users to break even.
Will OVO reconsider the payment rate to be used?
I also live in Scotland and have solar panels. I'm just in the process of trading in my old Nissan Leaf for a new one. My question about the FIT payments is that once they are waived (a requirement to be in the trial) what happens once the trial is over?

Philippa
Userlevel 2
Hari,
I am very glad that you responded to my question and showed me that OVO staff do indeed read customers input and consider them seriously.
As you say the figures I used are only estimates based on assumptions which will not necessarily be repeated in real life.
I have had a LEAF since 27/08/2011 and have kept a spreadsheet showing my gas and electricity readings since then so I can give you better information about likely usage.
As I said before my 4 Kwh solar system (the largest for which TIFF is available) has produced a maximum of about 3500 Kwhs in a year. TIFF gives me 3.82 pence per Kwh for half of this production 1750 Kwhs- £66.85.
This is based on the assumption that about 50% of the production is fed onto the mains and 50% used in my home.
This assumption was slightly optimistic even for the first few years until I purchased a Nissan Leaf.
My Leaf has a 24Kwh battery.
I travel approx 10,000 miles per year (about the average) and get about 3.5 miles per Kwh which means that the car uses about 2,875 Kwh.
The nearest public charge point is approx 10 miles from my home so it is not practical to use it for charging except when I am travelling near it.
I guess that about 50 % of my charging is done at home. This is an under estimate but I do not want to under estimate the benefits I get from the availability of free charging in Scotland at a cost of £20 per year.
This means that the car uses up about 1,438 Kwh of the 1750 Kwh which was estimated to be available after normal house usage.
This means that a maximum of 312 Kwh per year This is is available to fed back to the mains.
I previously suggested a figure of 18 Kwh per day as being used from the car battery.
This is 6,750 Kwh per year.
We can ignore the cost of electricity which varies by area as any power fed to the mains is effectively returned free of charge.
Anyone without solar panels would receive 6p per Kwh for this i.e. £394 20.
Anyone with solar panels would receive 2p per Kwh i.e £131.40
The 312 Kwh provided by the soar panels would effectively receive the cost of purchase (at present this is 14.29p per Kwh in Scotland) plus 2p Per Kwh I.e £50.82
So the total received with Solar Panels (£182.12) compares with the £394 without Solar Panels.
i.e Solar Panel owners are losing £211.88. i.e more than 50% plus the £66.85 TiFF payment
This is a total loss of £288.65.
If the full 6P were paid with Solar Panels this would result in an over payment of £18.72 per year surely not enough to justify a separate system.
Even these figures assume that the original estimate of 50% of solar production (1750Kwhs)was available for export to the mains which (as I said at the start) I suspect was an over estimate.
As you said the effective payment for export from the solar generation is considerably higher than the FITT payment, but unfortunately the payment would only be due on a very small figure (quite possibly ZERO) as the car uses most of the generation in charging.
I realise that there will be some days in summer when high production and low in house use may affect this but this is also the time when the car will be used more often.

Please give me your opinion of these more realistic figures.

Jim
I got an OVO V2G charger and now pay £30 a month more!
They fitted the charger - worked after a couple of visits and a threat to remove it if they didn't get it working (My only transport is electric)
Problem was my contract came up for renewal 2 months after it was fitted - went from 11.8p per kWh to 14p per kWh. - That's a big increase - went on Compare the Market I could get 11.5p per kWh. £30 a month cheaper. But stuck with OVO for 2 years on this trial!!! Not happy. May just get a normal charger fitted and save wear and tear on my £6000 battery pack.

[edited by moderator]

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