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I have a SMETS1 Landis+Gyr smart meter and Trilliant comms hub from British Gas - is it best to wait for SMETS2 enrolment to DCC or get an OVO Aclara smart meter fitted?

  • 12 December 2020
  • 28 replies
  • 1837 views

Userlevel 2

Hello,

I have an old British Gas electricity smart meter installed in a cabinet and would appreciate some advice as to whether we have enough space for a SMETS2 smart meter. Hopefully the attached photo will show the current setup.

T

he cabinet is near the ceiling and the bottom of the cabinet is  2.25m from the floor (we receive our electricity supply from an overhead cable).

 

Many thanks for any advice.

 

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Best answer by Tim_OVO 17 December 2020, 12:00

Updated on 12/03/21: Are you sure your Landis + Gyr meter is S1? The info in this update box is taken from our topic guide on Landis+Gyr E470 smart meters, here. We made this guide as some E470 smart meters are S1, and some are S2. 

 

What does a SMETS1 Landis+Gyr E470 look like?

 

Here’s an example of one installed by British Gas/Centrica:

 

Original image credit @Jason Kovesdi 

The most common characteristics of the SMETS1 versions are the fact they have a black border surrounding the display, and will often have a separate Comms Hub next to the meter, such as the Trilliant SEAP-2001-V. If you have one of these, your gas meter will also be SMETS1 and is probably a Landis+Gyr G370.

 

If I’ve got one of these, can I switch supplier without breaking it?

 

Unfortunately, I’ve got a bit of bad news there. To get the best info, I need to call in help from SmartMe, one of the resources we use here a lot.

 

While the plan is to upgrade as many SMETS1 smart meters as possible to SMETS2 firmware and migrate them to the National Smart Meter Network via the Data Communications Company (DCC), it’s running a bit behind schedule at the time of writing.

 

The latest details we have are that S1 L+G meters are planned to be migrated around Autumn to Winter 2021, but this may still change. If you’ve change supplier in the meantime and your meter went dumb, it should recover after this process completes.

 

I’m with British Gas right now and they installed the meter, is that a problem?

 

I’m really sorry to say that due to the fact British Gas/Centrica are using their own proprietary WAN that no other supplier can access, if you switch away from them now, your smart meter will almost certainly go dumb temporarily. Don’t let this put you off though! It simply means you’ll just have to put manual readings in for a bit.

 

If the meters were installed by another supplier and are still SMETS1, they might still work fine with a few suppliers. Please check first!

 

All of these meters are being included in the migration. Once DCC takes over control, British Gas won’t be involved anymore and your meters will work fine everywhere.

 

Will these meters work with OVO?

 

Not yet, but they will soon! OVO chose to go with Secure branded meters rather than L+G back in the SMETS1 days, so the only SMETS1 meters OVO can support are those from Secure. However, OVO has got full support for all SMETS2 meters and SMETS1 meters from any brand that have been upgraded to SMETS2 and migrated to DCC. My own Aclara SGM1311 (guide here) that I like to call Raichu is one such meter.

 

Feel free to switch to OVO anyway if you wish. Once the meter starts working, you’ll be notified.

 

What does a SMETS2 Landis+Gyr E470 look like?

 

Good question! Here’s an example of one that was originally installed by EDF:

 

A SMETS2 EDF Landis+Gyr E470 with Toshiba SKU1 Cellular Comms Hub

Pretty much all SMETS2 L+G E470 meters look a bit like this one, but might not have the supplier stickers. They never have a black border around the display, and will always have one green and one grey button - but might not be in the same places.

 

If you have one of these meters, the exact gas meter you have may vary.

 

Will these meters work with any supplier?

 

Yup! As the SMETS2 variant, these ones work freely with any supplier, even if you’re no longer with the one that installed the meters.

 

Hi @Tedbarn 

 

Here is the schedule for enrolment to DCC (taken from this FAQ), your British Gas smart meters are in the bottom category, with a start date of Q3 2021. 

 

I’ve been advised OVO will attempt to migrate as many as we can, and if we fail, proceed to fit our S2 meters. 

 

What timescales to expect for my meters to be enrolled?


This table shows the expected delivery date depending on the Meter Manufacturer. 
 

Meter Manufacturer MSN format Fuel Expected migration to Smart
Secure YYP Electric Expected start November 2020 running to July 2021
  G4P Gas  
Elster YYK Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4K Gas  
Aclara YYM Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4F Gas  
Itron YYS Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  G4 Gas  
L+G YYL Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  ZYYQ Electric  
  ZYYN Electric  
  E6S Gas  
View original

28 replies

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

Good morning @Tedbarn ,

Sorry to have kept you waiting! I planned to respond last night but got called away to some other tasks.

Thanks for that photo by the way, it’s extremely helpful! If I’m seeing things correctly, your smart meter looks like a Landis+Gyr E470? The Communications Hub on it is certainly unusual. If that’s the case, it appears you have a SMETS1 Smart Meter, one of the older ones that originally couldn’t work properly with all suppliers, while a SMETS2 can work seamlessly across them all.

 

The good news however, is that you won’t need to have that meter replaced at all in order to get a SMETS2 meter. While there is indeed plenty of space for one (such as an Aclara SGM1400 Series meter),  your current one should be getting a firmware upgrade sooner or later which will upgrade it to behave like a SMETS2 meter - including the ability to switch suppliers freely and not lose any features.

I’m pleased to confirm that your Landir+Gyr E470 is indeed on the list of meters that will be upgraded and migrated to SMETS2, as per this really handy page on SmartMe. Once the upgrade is done, you’ll be able to use your current meter with OVO (or anyone else!) just like you did with British Gas when it was first installed.

 

If there’s anything else we can help with, please let us know.

Userlevel 2

Hello Blastoise186,

I can honestly say I do not think I have received such a helpful and informative response to any post I have made on a forum - thank you so much!

I had a closer look at the smart meter and it is indeed a Landis+Gyr E470. The Trilliant Communications Hub has the model number SEAP-2000-V listed on it.

I had no idea my smart meter could have a firmware upgrade and am in the process of switching to a new OVO plan that is not one of the smart meter plans. I assume I cannot switch to a smart meter plan until the firmware upgrade has taken place?

 

Many thanks,

 

Tedbarn

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

You’re most welcome @Tedbarn :slight_smile:

Thanks for your feedback, I’m glad my post was helpful.

The ability to do firmware upgrades is a pretty common feature shared by all SMETS1 and SMETS2 capable smart meters, although the exact methods of how it’s done can vary.

I was actually looking into some details about the Landis+Gyr meters earlier, and it does seem that some of them like the E470 use an external communications hub rather than a built-in one. Strange design choice, but that’s just how L+G chose to do it.

The good news is that you’re welcome to switch between any of the plans that OVO offers and your smart features will still work just fine. Since you already have a smart meter, the only one you can’t go for right now is Better Smart Energy as that’s only for new customers who don’t have one at all yet. Other than that one, you can choose any plan that takes your fancy right now. The smart features will work just fine regardless of which plan you’re on too.

If your meter doesn’t communicate with OVO initially, you would need to submit readings manually for a while, but OVO are great at letting you know if that’s the case - and they’ll also let you know when your smart meter starts to submit readings properly.

The firmware upgrades are being done remotely and you won’t need an engineer visit to get yours done. If you’re unsure whether yours has been upgraded yet, the support team will be happy to look up the status on the national database ECOES for you.

In the meantime, feel free to choose any tariff on offer and OVO will take care of the rest. If you need any more help, we’ll be happy to offer it.

Userlevel 2

Helpful is a bit of an understatement 😉

Thanks again for your response.

I had incorrectly assumed that having a SMETS1 meter installed by a different energy supplier was essentially the same as having no meter and I would need to have a new SMETS2 capable smart meter installed - boy was I wrong!

I have been with OVO for nearly 2 years and my electricity meter has never communicated with OVO so submitting meter readings is nothing new for me.

Thanks so much for your help!!

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Woaah! - hold on there….

@Tedbarnwrote:  “my electricity meter has never communicated with OVO”

There are two different concepts being discussed here. May I please separate them….?

If your “electricity meter” (technically your Communications Hub) has lost connection, then it obviously can’t receive an over-the-air upgrade to the newer SMETS2 software, or then be migrated onto the National Smart Meter Network.

However, if the Comms Hub ceased to send data at the same time as you switched to OVO, then this was due to it remaining on the Wide Area Network owned by the original installer.

So in that latter case, it is the manufacturer, Landis & Gyr, who send the SMETS2 upgrade via the network owned by the old Energy Supplier.

I’m unsure whether that also migrates your site onto the National Smart Meter Network automatically, or whether it is the responsibility of the old Supplier to move it.

Nevertheless, it is then a second/different step for OVO to “acquire” the smart readings. To do so, their in-house Billing System is given the instruction to make that connection via the Data Communications Company (DCC).

You will know that this has occurred because the Billing Software will download your tariff data to the Comms Hub and hence your In Home Device (IHD) will start displaying the correct usage in £s.

So the crunch issue is the first one I mentioned…

Was the loss of your smart data connection coincident with the move to OVO?

Userlevel 2

Hello Transparent, thanks for your response.

 

The loss of smart meter connection did coincide with the move from British Gas to OVO.

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Thanks for confirming that @Tedbarn 

But we’ll leave my explanation here because it will be of help to others with a similar issue in future. That way the Forum gets progressively turned into a knowledge-base of possible answers for customers to browse.

Userlevel 7

Hello Transparent, thanks for your response.

 

The loss of smart meter connection did coincide with the move from British Gas to OVO.

 

 

I’m not 100% we’ve confirmed a solution for this one yet. 

 

Do we know when BG S1 meters were migrated onto the National Smart Meter Network. It might already be S2. 

 

As @Transparent mentioned, the loss of comms which coincides with the switch to OVO makes the causes of this unclear. Either way, hold off on booking a meter exchange till we figure this out, @Tedbarn 

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Landis & Gyr meters are in the 3rd (Final Operating Capability) tranch.

However that’s been running for several months now. Remember the firmware upgrade by the manufacturer has to occur before the meters get migrated/adopted.

My best guess is that @Tedbarn‘s meter will have received the upgrade.

The unknown factor is whether it subsequently got handed over to the Data Communications Company for adoption. That would need to have been done by the original Energy Supplier, which we assume was BG/Centrica..

Userlevel 2

I contacted OVO support and asked when my smart meter upgrade is going to happen and received th below response:

 

"For your meter type the estimated start date for the update is 2021. The update is being carried out by the Data Communications Company (DCC) and they are currently updating meters in batches. When you are due to have your meter updated, you will receive communication from us and then we will let you know when the update is complete"

 

Is it worth me contacting British Gas?

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

Welcome back @Tedbarn ,

It’s probably not worth talking to British Gas if you’re no longer with them. If you’re no longer their customer, they’re no longer responsible for your supply and meter, so you’d likely be bounced back to OVO pretty quickly.

My own Aclara SGM1311 was a SMETS1 meter, so it initially lost comms when I switched from SSE to OVO back in October, but has since been upgraded to the SMETS2 firmware. It’s nearly ready to connect with OVO in the next couple of weeks or so, once it finishes the adoption process, despite the fact I left SSE before the upgrade even started.

I think as long as your own meter is able to get a signal somehow, it should eventually upgrade and migrate at some point in the future. Based on what OVO has told me, if my own meter fails to connect after the migration process should have completed, they’ll be able to step in and try to resolve it - and a meter exchange would be on the cards as a last resort. Shouldn’t be needed in my case though.

Hopefully you’ll get there at some point too. You’ll definitely receive an email from OVO once your meter is ready to migrate, so please keep an eye on your inbox!

Userlevel 2

Thanks Blastoise186. I switched to OVO two years ago and hope I will get an email next year regarding meter migration.

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

That’s really poor wording from OVO@Tedbarn.

Have a look at the clarifications I wrote about this process yesterday.

It’s not DCC who “do the updates”. The manufacturer is responsible for sending the SMETS2 firmware, which has to occur across the old proprietary network for obvious reasons.

The one aspect of the process which doesn’t seem to be “monitored” or subject to targets is the “adoption” of the meters by DCC. In fact the onus appears to be on the old Energy Supplier to “offer” them for adoption.

I’d be surprised if contacting BG gets you anywhere. After all they no longer have any contract with you.

You could ask OVO to check with the national meter databases, but

  • I have no idea if those records have fields to describe a meter’s progress through the migration to full SMETS2 functionality
  • I really don’t want thousands of customers contacting Customer Services to find out!

Perhaps @Tim_OVO could ask a generic questions on behalf of all customers with SMETS1 installations, and then tell us here.

Userlevel 7

Thanks all, great discussion here and we’re narrowing down on a best answer. 

 

I’m chasing an update on enrollment, and best advice for customers who are waiting. 

 

I will be back, @Tedbarn, so for now sit tight and have an egg nog :blush:

Userlevel 2

Thanks Tim. I might have another After Eight rather than an egg Nog 😁

Userlevel 2

Apologies my dog just walked on my phone and I think he managed to change something?!?!

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

Hehehe, that’s one smart dog you’ve got there @Tedbarn ! He somehow managed to mark Tim’s last reply as the Best Answer about finding a Best Answer! But somehow, I’m not quite sure it’s the Best Answer you were looking for…

Not to worry though, @Tim_OVO can fix this later by updating the status to unsolved, or re-assigning the Best Answer to something that isn’t picked by an overly energetic dog. :dog:

Userlevel 2

So sorry and I'm surprised his smelly little paws managed to change anything!🐾

Userlevel 7
Badge +3

No worries!

I actually have the ability to mark any reply in Question threads as the Best Answer, even if I didn’t start the thread myself - but not the ability to change an already selected Best Answer. It’s proven useful a few times.

The downside is that the Best Answer button appears in the same place as Like does otherwise, so you’ve no idea how many times I’ve nearly hit Best Answer by mistake!

Easy fix though, I just have to delegate the job to a minion called Tim… :wink:

Userlevel 7

Hahahaha I can’t believe your doggy assigned my reply as the solution. At least SOMEONE appreciated my efforts here :joy::dog2:

 

Userlevel 7

Updated on 12/03/21: Are you sure your Landis + Gyr meter is S1? The info in this update box is taken from our topic guide on Landis+Gyr E470 smart meters, here. We made this guide as some E470 smart meters are S1, and some are S2. 

 

What does a SMETS1 Landis+Gyr E470 look like?

 

Here’s an example of one installed by British Gas/Centrica:

 

Original image credit @Jason Kovesdi 

The most common characteristics of the SMETS1 versions are the fact they have a black border surrounding the display, and will often have a separate Comms Hub next to the meter, such as the Trilliant SEAP-2001-V. If you have one of these, your gas meter will also be SMETS1 and is probably a Landis+Gyr G370.

 

If I’ve got one of these, can I switch supplier without breaking it?

 

Unfortunately, I’ve got a bit of bad news there. To get the best info, I need to call in help from SmartMe, one of the resources we use here a lot.

 

While the plan is to upgrade as many SMETS1 smart meters as possible to SMETS2 firmware and migrate them to the National Smart Meter Network via the Data Communications Company (DCC), it’s running a bit behind schedule at the time of writing.

 

The latest details we have are that S1 L+G meters are planned to be migrated around Autumn to Winter 2021, but this may still change. If you’ve change supplier in the meantime and your meter went dumb, it should recover after this process completes.

 

I’m with British Gas right now and they installed the meter, is that a problem?

 

I’m really sorry to say that due to the fact British Gas/Centrica are using their own proprietary WAN that no other supplier can access, if you switch away from them now, your smart meter will almost certainly go dumb temporarily. Don’t let this put you off though! It simply means you’ll just have to put manual readings in for a bit.

 

If the meters were installed by another supplier and are still SMETS1, they might still work fine with a few suppliers. Please check first!

 

All of these meters are being included in the migration. Once DCC takes over control, British Gas won’t be involved anymore and your meters will work fine everywhere.

 

Will these meters work with OVO?

 

Not yet, but they will soon! OVO chose to go with Secure branded meters rather than L+G back in the SMETS1 days, so the only SMETS1 meters OVO can support are those from Secure. However, OVO has got full support for all SMETS2 meters and SMETS1 meters from any brand that have been upgraded to SMETS2 and migrated to DCC. My own Aclara SGM1311 (guide here) that I like to call Raichu is one such meter.

 

Feel free to switch to OVO anyway if you wish. Once the meter starts working, you’ll be notified.

 

What does a SMETS2 Landis+Gyr E470 look like?

 

Good question! Here’s an example of one that was originally installed by EDF:

 

A SMETS2 EDF Landis+Gyr E470 with Toshiba SKU1 Cellular Comms Hub

Pretty much all SMETS2 L+G E470 meters look a bit like this one, but might not have the supplier stickers. They never have a black border around the display, and will always have one green and one grey button - but might not be in the same places.

 

If you have one of these meters, the exact gas meter you have may vary.

 

Will these meters work with any supplier?

 

Yup! As the SMETS2 variant, these ones work freely with any supplier, even if you’re no longer with the one that installed the meters.

 

Hi @Tedbarn 

 

Here is the schedule for enrolment to DCC (taken from this FAQ), your British Gas smart meters are in the bottom category, with a start date of Q3 2021. 

 

I’ve been advised OVO will attempt to migrate as many as we can, and if we fail, proceed to fit our S2 meters. 

 

What timescales to expect for my meters to be enrolled?


This table shows the expected delivery date depending on the Meter Manufacturer. 
 

Meter Manufacturer MSN format Fuel Expected migration to Smart
Secure YYP Electric Expected start November 2020 running to July 2021
  G4P Gas  
Elster YYK Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4K Gas  
Aclara YYM Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4F Gas  
Itron YYS Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  G4 Gas  
L+G YYL Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  ZYYQ Electric  
  ZYYN Electric  
  E6S Gas  
Userlevel 7
Badge +4

That time-scale is significantly different to any others I’ve seen… especially for Itron and L&G.

Shouldn’t that start date be “Q3 2020” ?

Userlevel 7

That time-scale is significantly different to any others I’ve seen… especially for Itron and L&G.

Shouldn’t that start date be “Q3 2020” ?

 

Just getting these sense checked now, @Transparent - Our friend Ben will be able to confirm before or after any A/L being taken this week :santa:

Userlevel 7

Hi @Transparent, me again. 

 

An update on this one, is that I’ve heard that the timeframes are correct in terms of guidance, but are not fixed and actually things are progressing slower then anticipated. 

 

We would recommend using this only as a guidance:

 

 

Meter Manufacturer MSN format Fuel Expected migration to Smart
Secure YYP Electric Expected start November 2020 running to July 2021
  G4P Gas  
Elster YYK Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4K Gas  
Aclara YYM Electric Already started. Planned completion March 2021
  G4F Gas  
Itron YYS Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  G4 Gas  
L+G YYL Electric Estimated start date Q3 2021
  ZYYQ Electric  
  ZYYN Electric  
  E6S Gas  

 

 

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Thanks @Tim_OVO 

That’s an extremely long delay to the start of upgrading and migrating Landis & Gyr meters.

There are certain to be more of these installed than any other SMETS1 meters because they were deployed by Centrica (British Gas).

The greatly increased timescales for migration will depress the market for innovative add-ons and smart services. After all, lots of the Kaluza product range probably won’t be considered by that section of the population because they’ll assume that the Flex Platform can’t be used on an L&G SMETS1 site sat on top of Centrica’s proprietary WAN.

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