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Smart meters SMETs1 or SMETs2?



Now that the DCC system is operational, what generation of smart meters are you fitting these days?
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Best answer by Tim_OVO 24 March 2017, 12:54

Now that the DCC system is operational, what generation of smart meters are you fitting these days?

On the ball with the latest smart technology, Neil - I like it! That title is spot on, so I've just added a tag so other users can find this topic.

As for the 'SMETs2' meters ('smart metering equipment technical specifications: second version', for those not in the know), these are still in the testing phase. This means we're still fitting the first generation of smart meters - 'SMETs1'. We'll be doing a small scale trial from December of this year onwards. Your best best to get the next gen meter is mid 2018 I reckon.

Tim

UPDATE 26/06/19 - WE'RE NOW INSTALLING SMETS2 METERS, AN APPOINTMENT CAN BE ARRANGED HERE.
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Oh you’ll definitely get a SMETS2 @lkjasw. There’s no SMETS1 meters being installed at Stowmarket in 2020!

If you want to learn a bit more of what this entails, have a look at the Topic I’ve been writing about SMETS2 Installation.

The concept of controlling other devices from the Smart Meters is called Auxilliary Load Control Switching and you can read a bit about that here later in that same Topic.

@Transparent thanks for sharing that diagram... Certainly is interesting to see.

 

So, as someone who is clearly better informed than I am, would you recommend installing the SMETs2 or do you think there may be another iteration that may offer even better connectivity and energy management? 

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We have to remember that OVO is now a very large company and has senior managers overseeing what the web-designers, marketing team and advertising specialists think will most attract the highest number of potential customers.

Unfortunately, the level of detail that you and I enjoy delving into isn’t particularly attractive to the majority of people they are trying to reach.

This is going to become a serious problem in the domestic energy sector, and it’s one that Ofgem are eager to address. They cite “lack of knowledge” as a key factor in holding back the forthcoming technology on which the UK energy strategy is based.

For example, here’s a diagram from the final version of a BEIS leaflet explaining how Smart Meters deliver the Demand Side Response strategy for which the UK Government passed the necessary legislation in 2013/14.

 

To me (and possibly you too) this is very informative. It explains where the Smart Meter sits within the secure control system which allows me to optimise my electricity use for when energy prices are low.

However, the vast majority of the population still only regard a Smart Meter as a mechanism by which Energy Suppliers can send them accurate bills.

Even OVO’s/Kaluza Division aren’t using the secure SMETS Command Structure to control their two intelligent Electric Vehicle Chargers!

Somehow we have to overcome this knowledge deficiency and allow people to see the possible energy-efficiency measures they could be using to lower costs, increase the quantity of renewable energy in the mix and help combat Climate Change.

Then, like you, they might actually ask the (highly relevant) question about what generation of Smart Meter they are being offered.

I think all of us have a part to play in spreading the little knowledge we have to as many people as we can. SMETS Meters need to become a conversation topic in the pub and the gym.

 

(And BTW, you don’t need to re-quote what anyone else writes when you reply to it within the same Topic. The QUOTE button is a bit too prominent on the Forum. We need a Moderator to have a look at that issue in the Forum software… @Nancy_OVO ?)

I don’t disagree with you @lkjasw. But you are at least technically informed sufficiently to ask the question. I doubt that most consumers could even understand the difference between SMETS1 and SMETS2

If you look through the official OVO website, it actually has very little technical content. In keeping with most companies, most of their market share is obtained by using marketing tools to encourage “sales”.

I feel you actually get better responses to your sort of enquiry from this Forum. There’s quite a few knowledgeable correspondents here, and we’re not constrained by company policy!

I’ve been discussing with one of the Forum Moderators, @Tim_OVO, how we can better allow readers to find the answers they’re looking for here.

For the question you’ve asked, the answer actually changes over time. So when reading a Topic, you need to note when each comment was first uploaded. Perhaps we need to consider some of flag-system so that we can still retain earlier comments, but add a symbol to alert others that the information has now been superseded.

Yes I agree and had seen an original thread which was two years old and as you say this is a moving feast. 

 

Ethically it would be better for companies such as OVO to take the lead on being informative. I guess someone posting the message on the app elected to not be informative... Which is a shame. 

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I don’t disagree with you @lkjasw. But you are at least technically informed sufficiently to ask the question. I doubt that most consumers could even understand the difference between SMETS1 and SMETS2

If you look through the official OVO website, it actually has very little technical content. In keeping with most companies, most of their market share is obtained by using marketing tools to encourage “sales”.

I feel you actually get better responses to your sort of enquiry from this Forum. There’s quite a few knowledgeable correspondents here, and we’re not constrained by company policy!

I’ve been discussing with one of the Forum Moderators, @Tim_OVO, how we can better allow readers to find the answers they’re looking for here.

For the question you’ve asked, the answer actually changes over time. So when reading a Topic, you need to note when each comment was first uploaded. Perhaps we need to consider some of flag-system so that we can still retain earlier comments, but add a symbol to alert others that the information has now been superseded.

The answer depends on where you are situated within the country @lkjasw . I looked for this in your Forum Profile, but you haven’t yet filled it out.

In the Southern and Central territories of England and Wales, where Telefonica is the licensed communication operator for the National Smart Meter Network, OVO have been fitting the newer SMETS2 meters since 16th March 2019. They gain no longer obtain credits from Ofgem for fitting the earlier SMETS1 meters.

If you live in the North of England or Scotland, then the situation is more complex. The telecommunications operator for the Norther Territory, Arqiva, uses a different radio frequency with extended coverage. But the installation of that network is running several months behind the rest of England.

In those circumstances, only OVO themselves can state which Smart Meter generation they are able to install.

I have updated my location, so yes the South of England. 

 

Appreciate the guidance, although I have already raised a question with customer services on the basis the information isn't readily available. 

 

I would have hoped that ovo would want customers to make an informed decision on this and should be putting this information front and centre rather than expecting people to make appointments without knowing. 

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The answer depends on where you are situated within the country @lkjasw . I looked for this in your Forum Profile, but you haven’t yet filled it out.

In the Southern and Central territories of England and Wales, where Telefonica is the licensed communication operator for the National Smart Meter Network, OVO have been fitting the newer SMETS2 meters since 16th March 2019. They can no longer obtain credits from Ofgem for fitting the earlier SMETS1 meters.

If you live in the North of England or Scotland, then the situation is more complex. The telecommunications operator for the Norther Territory, Arqiva, uses a different radio frequency with extended coverage. But the installation of that network is running several months behind the rest of England.

In those circumstances, only OVO themselves can state which Smart Meter generation they are able to install.

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@lkjasw if it doesn't specify throught the link then it may be best to contact customer service and they will be able to advise and book it in there and then

I have received the offer of an appointment for a smart meter but before I commit to a time there's no detail as to whether this is the newer type meter that will work with other service providers. I would want to know before I agree to an appointment so can you advise please? 

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Welcome to the Forum @0415

This is an interesting question because it doesn’t have a straight yes/no answer!

Smart Meters have a wide range of capabilities inbuilt into them, few of which are currently used. Those that I have investigated all seem to support at least four different preset charge bands.

However it is a function of your chosen tariff which dictates whether these charge bands are used. As far as I know, OVO currently offer just one tariff that makes use of an alternative charge band. Unsurprisingly it’s the one we call Economy-7, which provides a lower price for all use between midnight and 7am.

Contrarywise, those customers who opt for an OVO Economy-7 tariff will pay an increased rate for electricity usage outside of those times (ie higher than customers on a standard tariff). So whether it is viable for you comes down to what proportion of your energy consumption is required outside the Economy-7 slot.

 

All of this strategy for charge bands is currently being superseded by  half-hour variable tariff structures, sometimes called Time Of Use tariff.

This allows customers to draw energy at much reduced rates when it is in plentiful supply, for example from wind turbine arrays, but increases prices for usage when there is peak demand and little renewable generation available.

The Government’s name for this is Demand Side Response.

 

Account No: *Removed by mod*

Awaiting smart meter install; will it enabled for off peak loads on my account No above?

I want to charge my ecar between 1am-5am (7kW)

 

Is anyone even fitting smet 1 meters theses days ? 

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Hi @Ejclayton - well it certainly won’t be the current SMETS2 variety. So if it’s definitely “smart” (as opposed to “digital”) then it will be a SMETS1.

Not good enough conversation over.
Conversation over.
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Well I'm most likely the one you refer to who hasn't had operational SMETS2 meters since first installation six months ago.

But I responded to your observation on another Forum Topic, @Ivor Appleyard, where I mentioned that I had agreed with OVO for them to run a series of software tests on my SMETS2 meters.

My account is well in credit and neither OVO nor myself are feeling any urgency to cease the tests and revert to me finally having a fully-operational installation with the online usage-graphs working.

In fact I'm just about to add another piece of equipment-under-test to my Smart Meter set-up. So there's not much point getting all the data-streams sorted where they interface with OVO's Billing-software when the SMETS communications at my site might get disrupted all over again.

It's this on-site testing which helps OVO decide whether it really is installing a "rubbish meter" as you suggested, or whether it's something much more subtle, such as the order in which commissioning is undertaken.
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As I'm sure you can appreciate, @Ivor Appleyard, people tend to voice issues on a public platforms. You're right not all of the installations have gone perfectly, but the majority have.

We encourage people here on the forum to share experiences, it helps people to share knowledge and manage expectations. Hopefully the members that you've mentioned, with meter issues will be sorted sooner rather than later, we really are doing all we can to get things resolved as quickly as possible.

Thanks!
On your forum people are having issues with there smart meters one person was still having trouble with the smart meter after six months you have all ready acknowledged that and you are working with him to fix the problem six months is to long another one is getting a fourth smart meter installed in November because the other smart meters where rubbish there is loads more on your forum who are having issues with there smart meters.
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Hi @Solothelab. There have been reports in the media of Smart Meters giving very high readings. However, if you trace back to the sources, they fall into two categories:

A. Smart Meters used in tests in the Netherlands where loads were connected which produced oscillations. BEAMA, the manufacturer's association, have confirmed that none of the meter designs in those tests passed the more stringent criteria for approval in the UK.

B. Initial high costings being given on the IHD. There are two reasons for this, both of which have been discussed elsewhere on this Forum. The IHD readings get corrected during the first month of commissioning, once your actual tariff data is downloaded by OVO. This doesn't affect the bill you receive because that is based on the cumulative measurements from the meter itself - not the IHD.

Smart Meters approved for use in the UK must achieve very high accuracy.

On the positive side, billing errors are reduced for customers with Smart Meters.
Not interested most people have problems with smart meters.
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This wouldn't be possible, @Solothelab.

The good thing about smart meters is that you would be able to see exactly what you're using, so it will make monitoring your usage easier!
Is it possible that I can retain my existing meters if I have a smat meter installed so that over a period of time I can check that the Samrt meter is recording usage figures correctly, It would be good to be able to run existing meters in tandem with existing meters to check accuracy. If this was the case I would gladly have a Smart meter but if not I am very scepticsl of them.
Conversation is over now bye.
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You're right that this is what the British press has announced, @Ivor Appleyard

However, I based my statement on what the Government itself has actually published. It's a proposal in section-50 of the Public Consultation on Smart Meters beyond 2020.


Participants are asked to provide comment on this proposal as their answer to Question-3, which is printed on pages 23 and 38.

I happen to want modifications to this proposal, which is why I'd taken particular interest in the Consultation when it was launched last week (Tues 17th Sept).

It is unfortunate that the SMETS2 timetable we are working to at the moment was developed by consultees who were predominately in favour of the strategies and timescales because they were mainly from within the energy industry. I feel that has led to over-optimistic view of which parts of the implementation are concurrent, and which are consecutive.

As you are apparently not of that view (!) I think you should be responding to this consultation.

It would provide some refreshing balance for BEIS to hear from consumers who have not been persuaded by the arguments they have put forward in favour of Smart Meters.

The responses I will be sending to this Consultation have been honed precisely because I have spent time discussing Smart Meters and energy strategy with a wide range of ordinary people. I wouldn't have reached the conclusions I've now come to if I only listened to those of similar views!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/16/smart-energy-meter-rollout-uk-deadline-pushed-back-2024

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49721436

I was right the smart meter roll out as been put back to 2024 check the links above.

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