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What happens to my V2G export payments at the end of my 2 year contract?



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I do wonder if the OVO V2G issues are similar to those with the Octopus Agile and Octopus Outgoing tariff which even more unviable currently.…

Yes, I think that is a good analogy. Octopus Agile does struggle with the high prices a bit, but especially compared to the alternative, it still seems profitable overall. 

OVO may already be seriously subsidising the V2G pilot with the current rates they are offering. 

This comes down to the question whether V2G is commercially viable or not in the first place, and I think it very much depends on the situation.

V2H is certainly profitable, so if you are for example running the kettle, a shower, or an ASHP, and the system is powering those during a high price period with battery power, OVO gets all the benefit (they don’t have to pay the high rates), but the user gets nothing (because there is no V2G export) and is stuck with all the losses, battery ageing etc on top. 

If you are a low power user, so most of the power is actual V2G export, the profit depends on your tariff. From April, most of us will be on the standard variable tariff, which should be around 30p/kWh. Export is 39.2/kWh, which just about covers the totality of the losses. No profit for use, but clearly a profit for OVO. We know that, because they would not do it if there was no profit, and because the range between highest and lowest prices per day is about 20p/kWh, which is a lot more than the difference between import and export tariff. On top of that, OVO benefits from any V2H fraction, and from further time variable charges such as DuOS, balancing, DNO congestion charges etc. 

If you have solar, things change again. The V2G element is not worthwhile and does not cover the losses, so it is a clear loss to the customer. But the solar export is of course very well rewarded, and that probably makes it viable overall. It may or may not be viable for OVO depending on how much solar export is used and how much V2G. 

But on the whole, I see this as an experiment with a small number of customers, so profitability is probably not the main concern for OVO at this point. 

 

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Any update on rates now price cap is lifted @Tim_OVO  @Jess_OVO ?

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Just wanted to let you know I’ve passed this one on to the team to double-check if anything changes with your export  payments following the price cap rise, @Jequinlan.

 

Will pop back next week when I hear back from the team. :slight_smile:

Userlevel 7

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you on this one, @Jequinlan

 

The Smart Home team are currently reviewing things following the recent price cap announcement but did want to assure you that:

 

We're monitoring wholesale prices as usual, and will take appropriate action as and when required to ensure that nobody will be disadvantaged and exporting at a loss.

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Right, so we now know what OVO will be charging based on cap pricing from 1 April - any insights now on what is happening here, are we going to see a change in the export rate? There is no way I’m exporting based on the current incentive. You might think the data show no degradation, but why should I risk it? Can you please advise us of our options. Thanks

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We need a 15p buffer between import an export for my personal situation!

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Any update @Jess_OVO , @Tim_OVO ??

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My new V2G unit is due to be fitted at the end of this week so it looks like I should have a minimum time of exports until the end of the month, a rise in export rates should have been announced by now which leaves me to think it won’t happen, can I stay with OVO with a drive tariff and move over to V2H if that is so ?

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Any update @Jess_OVO , @Tim_OVO ??

 

Will pop back as soon as I’ve got more details from the Smart Home team. Thanks for your patience, @Jequinlan.

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Is there anyway we can turn the current VTG chargers into VTH chargers?  Quite happy to keep the export as is, if we can make that change.

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Heya @jp1 !

From my understanding, the V2G Chargers are also already capable of being V2H Chargers and are set up to do this in a hybrid operating capacity. The unit will prioritise supplying your home over supplying the grid with excess energy being sold back to the grid beyond that. There’s currently nothing I’m aware of that you can change to switch to pure V2H only.

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Is there any update on this as we are only a week away from the new rate?

As many have said, there is just no point using the charger for export as it will cost more to import than export.

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I think Indra have a V2H update that they are testing, although I don’t know when/if it will be generally available.  A friend of mine has just had the update, I don’t know anything more yet. 

I’ve been told Ovo have been inundated with work due to more customers from failed energy providers, so they’re a bit swamped - and that’s why the V2G/V2H has been taking a back seat.

 

Userlevel 7

Back with an update from the Smart Home Team, @Jequinlan@RobL@peterb999@jp1@sylm_2000@RobWallace@Sam72@MrPuds, @NeilG  - 

 

Firstly thank you for all your thoughtful and honest feedback here, this is so valuable as we formulate our future V2G plans.

 

We appreciate that the most pressing issue many of you have mentioned is the possibility of an increased export rate to compensate for the upcoming variable price cap increase. This is something that the team is currently working on and we’re hoping to announce more details of this in the coming month. Understandably for those of you who are currently on the Simpler Energy plan and concerned that the current export rate doesn’t present a financial incentive to export after April 1st, you may wish to temporarily pause your exports in the meantime. We’d recommend emailing the team on smarthome@ovoenergy.com to request this. You’d then be free to opt back in to the new export proposition when this is announced.

 

We hope this helps to mitigate the concerns many of you have expressed.

 

Any more suggestions or ideas you’d like to see from a V2G offering in future? We’re keen to hear them!

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Thanks @Jess_OVO, think I’d be happy to keep exporting if the price was right.  

Alternatively as I’m looking to get some Solar panels and a battery installed, will probably have to search for a variable tariff with a cheaper off peak rate. 

Would really love the option to have the VTG system work like a VTH, see something like rate you offer for OVO Drive, let me charge the car at that rate or for a select number of hours at night and let me use any excess to run the house.

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I guess setting the minimum charge level to 90-95% on the APP will effectively prevent much exporting right?

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Other than the simpler energy variable plan, are there any other electric car plans that we can consider that we could move to from OVO?

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@RobL thanks for the update, interesting to hear there is something in the pipeline, be sure to post back if you hear anything new.

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@Jess_OVO  Thanks for the update. It would be good if some pressure / friendly encouragement could be put on the development team to finish / roll out the updates that were scheduled pre Covid. These were set to provide energy efficiency improvements as well as grid supply limitation (so people can use  another charger simultaneously, have large heat pumps etc). The energy efficiency improvements would go a long way to making V2G economically viable at the higher rates.

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@Jess_OVO Good so see that we have the option to pause things. I think I will have to make that call in a day or so… I am a great believer in the project and would be very sad to see it collapse. The gas/oil crisis is making a real mess of all the financial models, but I guess if wholesale prices are so high, then the price for selling our power must also be high… so someone needs to make some decisions before this project grinds to a halt.

I struggle to see why there is a problem… Surely paying us enough to make it worthwhile and keep the project going is sensible… and it must make a profit for OVO as well as us… and with capped rates meaning margins are so tight, I cannot help but feel that ‘every little helps’…. both for us and for OVO.

@RobL... I would be very interested to hear what Indra are up to… they did a story on Midlands Today some months back showing one of the chargers we all have being used for V2H, but since that time, nothing more has been said. I have asked them for more information, but the reply was that they will make an announcement if or when they have something to say....

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Further to the note posted on the forum. I am pausing my exports due to the price rise in the energy cap and the fact that it will no longer economic to be part of this project. I would be happy to continue again, when OVO offer a fair price for the service we are providing. 

Below is a chart provided by Ofgem showing wholesale prices… There are many more, provided by specialist trading companies with details for each day, including yesterday… all show the same information we all know... the average price per MWh is now 4x higher than last year. Whilst I appreciate that the energy market is in complete disarray because of the the way it is regulated, I can only assume that the price increases, actually make this project more viable and important. So forgive my ignorance…. doesn’t the current situation mean that OVO will see a 300% (4x) increase in the price they were getting a year ago for the electricity they sell (or more likely - do not have to buy) from our cars? I would also point out that they have very generously increased the price they pay us by nearly 20%! Doesn’t this leaves them with the remaining 280% benefit?

I find it hard to understand why when faced with these facts, OVO management clearly do not want the project to continue… It is good for the planet, it furthers our understanding of how things might be in the future and it should now have decreased costs over those envisaged at conception….

I personally, do not expect to get a 300% increase in the rate paid for using my battery... If I was paid out a similar margin to before (i.e 10-15p per kWh more than the domestic tariff rate we have to buy at), I would be happy to continue. For OVO this amounts to about a 60-70% increase over prices set at the beginning of the project 3 years ago and a 30-40% increase on the current offering…. still well below the 54% increase OFGEM have legislated for. That presumably still leaves the lions share of the 300% increase in wholesale requirements with OVO…. unless we all walk away!

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I agree NeilG, whilst I have decided not to pause my exports my main loss in the project comes when I work my late shift week so by not plugging during that week I should reduce my all round loss by I hope a large enough margin, failing that I will find I will also have to hit the pause button too.

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I guess setting the minimum charge level to 90-95% on the APP will effectively prevent much exporting right?

 

Nice to see a potential workaround suggested here, @Sam72 - Unfortunately I’ve checked in with the team on this one and they’ve advised that as you’re only able to set your maximum and minimum charge level 20% apart on the app, this would still allow some exports. If you’re still planning to pause all exports for the moment drop the team an email at smarthome@ovoenergy.com.

 

I also really appreciate the points you’ve raised about the viability of a export rate which is tied to the import rate and the overall profitability of the scheme, @NeilG . I’ll be raising these points with the team at our next catch-up so we can give more details to help to explain the limitations of what we’re able to offer.

 

As always, thanks for your honest feedback and commitment to the V2G technology. 

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The current implementation of. the V2G charger firmware keeps the car constantly ready to export.  This costs around 1 or 2kWh a day, and I expect will continue to do so even if the export never happens.  I guess you could plug in, press boost, then disconnect?  I would swap swap to the granny cable if you do not wish exports to continue.  Just make sure it’s safe, not coiled up.  A downside of the granny cable is that I don’t think you can limit charge to 80% for good battery life, but at least it won’t drain the battery continuously; when the car is charged, that’s it finished.  

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The current implementation of. the V2G charger firmware keeps the car constantly ready to export.  This costs around 1 or 2kWh a day, and I expect will continue to do so even if the export never happens.  I guess you could plug in, press boost, then disconnect?  I would swap swap to the granny cable if you do not wish exports to continue.  Just make sure it’s safe, not coiled up.  A downside of the granny cable is that I don’t think you can limit charge to 80% for good battery life, but at least it won’t drain the battery continuously; when the car is charged, that’s it finished.  

I would not have thought 1-2kWh per day lost on standby, that’s a possible 60kWh lost per month makes me think that I may shut it down when not using it !!!

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