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What happens to my V2G export payments at the end of my 2 year contract?


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I am a V2G exporter and I have just had a note from OVO explaining what happens when my electricity/gas contract comes to an end in 60 days time. The renewal offers are eye watering and the cost of electricity is actually higher than the export rate paid for V2G. This means that if I leave my Kaluza controlled charger connected, not only will my electricity price double and gas price triple… the standing charge is also going up too and every kWh that I export will loose me more money!

Making a decision about the future is complicated for me as it involves a charger I do not know how to control, a third party company (Kaluzza) who have the ability to control it and the main part of OVO who do not seem to know anything about the V2G project, or reflect it in anything they do (other than the final bill each month) and the various Apps and algorithms which are going to try and control information to spin it to their liking and thus manage what I do…. Needless to say, i will not be playing that particular game… hence this question!

The Indra charger is a sophisticated and capable piece of kit… but at present, they (the charger company) will not talk to individuals or offer any kind of control interface \9 |I have already asked!). It seems senseless in this world of profligate waste to uninstall it and throw it away… but if it is not secure or controllable, that will be what will have to happen… which is absolute madness!

In order to make a sensible decision, I now need to know how I can control the Indra charger if I leave either OVO or the V2G experiment and how I stop it being controlled for grid export if it is loosing me money. I will also need to know if or what Kaluza are going to do... bearing in mind the current situation.

Common sense says that in a time of energy shortages and massive price hikes, the V2G project becomes even more important and that actually, it will still be financially viable…. if not more so.

So who do I talk to…?

 

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Best answer by peterb999 1 June 2022, 17:20

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Welcome back @NeilG,

 

Thanks for raising some really important questions on your V2G payments now your fixed plan is nearing the end. I’ve forwarded your comments here on to the Smart Home team and will pop back with an update from them as soon as I can.

 

Thanks for bearing with us :thumbsup:

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Back with an update from the Smart Home Team on this one, @NeilG

 

Hoping you’ve already received the email from the team explaining why export credits aren’t increasing at the same rate as your import rates. Worth bearing in mind that as transmissions losses are factored into the actual export payments you shouldn’t be losing out financially by exporting:

 

We appreciate that at the present time the proposition has reduced in value. Much like other V2G projects, the Feed in Tariff and Smart Export Guarantee, the export credits are not tied to energy wholesale prices, and they therefore remained static over the course of the two years from September 2019 until our recent 5p uplift.

 

We’re continuing to provide the uplift to ensure trialists still have a financial incentive to export, although we realise this is now less. We’ll also continue to add extra to cover round-trip exports, ensuring that you do not lose out for any standby or transmission losses. This means that the actual payment amount for 35p and 31p exports are actually 39.2p and 34.7p respectively - above the import rates of contract renewals affected by the price rise.

 

That said, the V2G charger can have the export capability disabled by the Smart Home team after the V2G trial period comes to an end, if you’d prefer. You can request this by contacting them on smarthome@ovoenergy.com or call 0330 102 7423 Monday-Friday, 9am - 5pm. If the export is disabled the V2G would act as a smart charger, where your EV would be charged by the ready by time set on the app. If the V2G charger were to be removed at your request, it would be sent back to Indra the manufacturers. They test and refurbish it ready for recirculation if another trialist requires a replacement.

 

Hope this helps in your renewal decision making - There’s also more advice given in this related topic on your options for switching away with the V2G charger installed. 

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I moved to OVO Nov 2019 to become part of the V2G trial Jan 2020 and with my 66plate 30kWh it was good to start - Covid hit and I lost a shift at work from 3 to a 2 shift system days and late shift, Late shift was haemorrhaging my V2G as only exporting 2 out of 4 weeks per month so the other 2 weeks I would incur the built in Losses and was heading toward a £500 debt come my 1 year OVO anniversary. Redone my calculations and bit the bullet with a new 62e+ coming to the end of my 2yr fix Nov 2021 I just scraped out of debt although my DD was £22 more than my previous provider.

My Trial comes to an end shortly so what do I do, stay on V2G for another year or move over to V2H ?

I’m on the variable rate with an offer of OVO Loyalty rate (OMG)£423 per month with the upcoming increases you would think as a goodwill gesture OVO would have a good rate reserved for the few hundred Trialists who have gave up so much ie cheaper rates, purchased new EV’s, Solar export Tariffs etc to thank us for helping support the Grid and allow the data to be used to improve the way they think and will provide energy for the future or am I being too optimistic that we would be valued for our efforts.

I am beginning to think we have served our purpose and OVO are willing to just hang us out to dry now they have what they want and so many new customers transferred from failing companies we would be no great loss.

Let me know what you think …………………..

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Hiya!

I’m probably not the best person to answer this one, but I think there’s a few members who can. @Jequinlan​​, @juliamc , @Gingernut49 , @knight , @Jeffus and @NinjaGeek are some of the most likely forum regulars who might know more than me. I’ll see if they’re around.

As for the transfers from failed suppliers, I can definitely answer that one. As of the 31st December 2021, OVO Group has not taken on any customers via the Ofgem Supplier of Last Resort process at all in 2021. In fact, I don’t think I recall seeing OVO being the Appointed Supplier for any SoLR process since Economy Energy went down back in January 2019. At very least, I can’t find any traces of OVO taking on a more recent SoLR than that.

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@RobWallace hmm. This may be a tricky one without seeing your detailed finances so am going to have to give generalised advice.

 

1. The energy price cap applied by the government only applies to variable tariffs

 

2. There is current opinion that fixed rate tarrifs (new) are a way worse deal than hitting the cap, and for this, ovo was recently called out at being the worst in national press (for profiteering)

 

3. If you don't want to suffer v2g exports losses at times, turn on boost mode. 

 

4. If rate out isn't better than rate in × loss factor, v2g is no longer viable.

 

I myself have a fixed tariff coming to end soon also, and am clearly over what would be the energy cap so my current thinking for me is to :

Go variable and hit the cap

Receive exports which, if ovo do it correctly should be applied AFTER the cap (we need this confirmed @Jess_OVO ) as this is an account credit and doesn't reduce usage 

 

This should then make v2g viable again.

 

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Best advice fro. Martin Lewis - do nothing and let fall into a price capped tarrif.

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As for the transfers from failed suppliers, I can definitely answer that one. As of the 31st December 2021, OVO Group has not taken on any customers via the Ofgem Supplier of Last Resort process at all in 2021. In fact, I don’t think I recall seeing OVO being the Appointed Supplier for any SoLR process since Economy Energy went down back in January 2019. At very least, I can’t find any traces of OVO taking on a more recent SoLR than that.

 

Reading about take overs they have not done so since SSE, being the second largest at that time I wonder if that is part of levelling up perhaps.

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@RobWallace hmm. This may be a tricky one without seeing your detauled finances so am going to have to give generalised advice.

 

1. The energy price cap applied by the government only applies to variable tarrifs

 

2. There is current opinion that fixed ratw tarrifs (new) are a way worse deal than hitting the cap, and for this, ovo was recently called out at being the worst in national press (for profiteering)

 

3. If you don't wNt to suffer v2g exports losses ar times, turn on boost mode. 

 

4. If rate out isn't better than rate in × loss factor, v2g is no longer viable.

 

I myself have a fixed tarrif coming to end soon also, and am clearly over what would be the energy cap so my current thinking for me is to :

Go variable and hit the cap

Recieve exports which, if ovo do it correctly should be applied AFTER the cap (we need this confirmed @Jess_OVO ) as this is an account credit and doesn't reduce usage 

 

This should then make v2g viable again.

 

I tried to run my V2G with as little interference as possible and plug in when home always to allow they build up of data for myself and obviously the company, maybe I should have been more aggressive with my charging regime, boosting etc, I have applied to be part of the V2H next phase as I can not see V2G being viable for me once the government price cap is reworked in April.

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I myself have a fixed tariff coming to end soon also, and am clearly over what would be the energy cap so my current thinking for me is to :

Go variable and hit the cap

Receive exports which, if ovo do it correctly should be applied AFTER the cap (we need this confirmed @Jess_OVO ) as this is an account credit and doesn't reduce usage 

 

Happy New Year, @Jequinlan - Right in there with the technical V2G questions to start the year!

 

So we’ve checked in with the Smart Home Team who’ve confirmed that as long as you remain on supply with OVO, V2G export credits will continue to be paid until at least January 2023. Also the current uplift in export rates is being extended to 30/06/2022, with the rates referenced online here.

 

Not sure quite what you mean by export credits being applied after the cap, but wonder if the best answer to this topic (since archived) might help:

 

I've confirmed that the stated 6p/kWh for export is the NET amount.

I.e. if we export 1 kWh from your battery back to grid, we will reimburse the import cost (the cost you pay per unit of electricity), plus 6p on top**.

 

Let me know if this covers things - if not we can take this one back to the team for more clarification! :slight_smile:

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I tried to run my V2G with as little interference as possible and plug in when home always to allow they build up of data for myself and obviously the company, maybe I should have been more aggressive with my charging regime, boosting etc, I have applied to be part of the V2H next phase as I can not see V2G being viable for me once the government price cap is reworked in April.

Yes, I tried the same initially, but it lead to excessive losses idle (must be around 2kWh per day). Now I plug it in when I know it is going to charge or discharge, and the losses have reduced. I still lose about 1kWh per day on “standby power” and a good 10% on round trip. 

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Not sure quite what you mean by export credits being applied after the cap, but wonder if the best answer to this topic (since archived) might help:

 

I've confirmed that the stated 6p/kWh for export is the NET amount.

I.e. if we export 1 kWh from your battery back to grid, we will reimburse the import cost (the cost you pay per unit of electricity), plus 6p on top**.

That was the initial offer, but it was changed at some point in 2019 to a fixed 30p (now 35p). I think the extra made more sense, but 6p was just not enough to make it worthwhile given all the costs associated with it. 

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Thanks for spotting that one, @MrPuds - we’ve checked this one with the team and you’re absolutely right!

 

The export payments are based on the export readings measured by your meter and the latest rates (including the paid rates which are adjusted to account for standby losses) are shown here. As long as you remain on a single rate plan (either fixed or variable) export payments will continue until at least January 2023 and these rates  have been guaranteed until 30th June 2022.

 

Not sure if this answers your question in relation to the variable price cap, @Jequinlan? Let us know if you need further clarification to help you work out your best option.

 

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Yes sadly the rates aren't keeping in line with cost to maintain the value of keeping the v2gs working..

 

They need to increase rates a little more really.

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This is really valuable feedback, @Jequinlan and just wanted to let you know I have passed this comment on to the Smart Home team.

 

I’d also encourage you to check out the advice given in this thread on your options if you decide that the current export rate isn’t cost-effective for you at the end of your current plan.

 

Hope this helps you work out the best way forward for your and your V2G charger. :red_car:

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I think OVO needs to rethink this. I appreciate energy prices have gone up (and I estimate at least 50% from the 2yr fixed I signed up too!!!), I accept it on gas prices, but we had a relatively simple structure on elec which was 15p KWH to charge and 35p to export - why is not possible for participants in this trial to be offered an elec tariff that ensures there remains some motivation to export? E.g. you’re paid 2x price of import for export. EVERY FIXED TARIFF is a disaster for V2G participants as it currently stands, so you’re forced onto variable. People who are managing V2G and this trial need to look at this as a matter of URGENCY.

 

Has any of you explored whether there are any other providers offering V2G that we could transfer to?

 

 

 

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Yes, this has gotten more and more urgent by day, given how few of us there are, you would like to think they would extend the original rates further (in and out) for us...

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Full amount of 600 trial participants, through natural wastage probably about 300 left but maybe less with some going over to V2H and the ability to have another year of data to keep the few remaining on a workable tariff has to be worth more than what would be lost to the company keeping it low for the remaining few. You can’t buy this data it’s made in real world UK conditions !!!

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Agree @RobWallace but we need an update   and we need it ASAP!

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I agree that the motivation is a problem. OVO never managed to see the tariff from our point of view, which is additional battery degradation, significant system losses (both idle and round trip), lack of payments for V2H, land being locked into an OVO tariff that is not designed for EVs. 

The initial approach of 6p of import was actually a pretty good idea, but not enough to compensate for system losses and overall expensive electricity. Instead of just improving the offer, they had to change the approach to a fix export payment. That worked well in 2021, but in 2022 it does not. 

My import has moved from 13p to 15p, and it will move to 20p and probably 30p. At 30p, the V2G proposition becomes a lot worse than the original import +6p. There is no reason to continue with this scheme, and I will have to consider my options. 

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@0.30p the round trip loss and adjustments will cost more than the .05p export payment so not enough to plug in if it will cost more.

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@MrPuds , ovo have a chance, right now, in less than 2 weeks to save the whole project. Question is, .... will they. @Tim_OVO @Jess_OVO ????

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It hadn’t really dawned on me how large the price increase is going to be having been on the fixed tariff for two years. Moving to “capped” variable rates (the lowest rates) will equate to an approximate 50% increase in my bills. Come April when these rates are likely to increase 40-50% again, I’m effectively looking at a yearly bill 75% higher than I had previously. Lump into that the loss of the V2G credit (assuming it essentially become unviable) and I think I’m looking at almost a doubling of my fuel bill...it’s scary.

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@Sam72 unless they do something i am in se boat. Finding an extra 400 a month is not easy!

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@Jequinlan that’s approximately the same as me £400 extra/month...how the hell are commercial businesses surviving out there, they’ve been subject to these rates for a while. I know inflation is roofing, but this is crazy….

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Yes, not funny.....

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