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Is the new EV Everywhere tariff with off-peak rate available to existing vehicle to grid (V2G) customers?

  • 12 October 2020
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I have come across an EV Everywhere tariff with an off-peak rate at smarthomecharge.co.uk. Can people on the V2G trial switch to this? Does anyone know more about this or was it discussed in the Facebook group?@Transparent , @D10hul , @vespalads , @Leo Moran , @JPL , @Ash_OVO 

 

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Best answer by Ash_OVO 13 October 2020, 10:28

  

I have come across an EV Everywhere tariff with an off-peak rate at smarthomecharge.co.uk. Can people on the V2G trial switch to this?

 

Hello ​​​​​​@Andras

 

Whilst on the V2G trial, trialist will need to remain on a single rate tariff. If you’re not on EV Everywhere already, you can upgrade at any time via your My OVO account, this will automatically offer you the single rate tariff in line with your current plan.

 

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Hello Andras…..

To be honest I haven’t a clue what scheme I’m on. I was on Economy 7 when I first started, then when I went V2G had to change to EV Anywhere but since renewing my policy I’ve been changed onto something else which I’ve been unable to fathom out what it is. On top of that there are so many inaccuracies in the payments ( mostly in my favour like incorrectly having £2,500 in advance) that even with the “easily readable Statement” they sent me I’m having to manually enter about 108 lines of data into an Apple Numbers (XL) spread sheet to fathom out what exactly I’m on. What makes it even more awkward is the bill is spread over 3 separate accounts...

Yesterday morning I was £740.07 in credit and so cashed in £599. This morning my account is  £755.07 in credit….like I say, I can’t fathom it out.

 

Leo

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Very good question, a question, I will have a look see whats what !!!, in the mean time I am sure @Ash_OVO will be on the case. 

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Ok, bit of digging…. 

So yes you can because “you can be on the V2G trial on any of our EV tariffs” has been quotes many times so I can't see why not. 

Next yes this is a viable Tarif, I can switch to it now for the following rates and I am keen to do so, 

  • Unit rate: 16.62p per kWh
  • Night unit rate: 10.19p per kWh
  • Standing charge: 23.42p per day

AND I also get Polar membership included free (well I suppose its in with the tariff) 

BUT and heres the catch, you need an economy 7 meter, and as all trialists will know we have a SMETS 1. 

 

SO over to you @Ash_OVO  and @Transparent  

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I have come across an EV Everywhere tariff with an off-peak rate at smarthomecharge.co.uk. Can people on the V2G trial switch to this?

 

Hello ​​​​​​@Andras

 

Whilst on the V2G trial, trialist will need to remain on a single rate tariff. If you’re not on EV Everywhere already, you can upgrade at any time via your My OVO account, this will automatically offer you the single rate tariff in line with your current plan.

 

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Its written in the t&c’s No economy 7 unfortunately

 

You’ll need to have purchased and registered a 2020 reg Nissan LEAF or Nissan e-NV200 before 01/04/2020, or have registered for our trial before 13/03/2020.

You’ll also need to: 

  • Be an OVO Energy customer on any of our fixed term plans.
  • Have a smart meter installed.
  • Have your data sharing preferences set to half-hourly.
  • Have a suitable space to install the charger.

Unfortunately, we can’t support Economy 7 tariffs.

To remain eligible once on the trial, smart meter data preferences need to be kept as half-hourly and the V2G charger should be the main way participants charge up. If not, the charger may be removed.

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Hah…. Yes, I thought @Ash_OVO would need to post that.

The Trial itself is based on a price analysis. The Kaluza Flex Platform is not (yet) able to cater for different rates being charged to customers at different times of day.

I think there is a price variation for customers with Dimplex Quantum storage radiators. But that’s an existing product, not a Trial.

 

There shouldn’t be any constraint imposed by the Trialists having SMETS1 meters. They already have multiple tariff capability and always have done.

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Hah…. Yes, I thought @Ash_OVO would need to post that.

The Trial itself is based on a price analysis. The Kaluza Flex Platform is not (yet) able to cater for different rates being charged to customers at different times of day.

I think there is a price variation for customers with Dimplex Quantum storage radiators. But that’s an existing product, not a Trial.

 

There shouldn’t be any constraint imposed by the Trialists having SMETS1 meters. They already have multiple tariff capability and always have done.

The OVO platform is not able to cope with V2G credits either, I have a battle every 6 months to keep my payments down, so come on the coders get typing away lets get these issues sorted. 

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Thank you for looking into that @Leo Moran , @D10hul , @Transparent and @Ash_OVO .  I agree with @D10hul and @Leo Moran  that the statements are not user friendly at all, although probably improved a bit since the start. I was also trying to explain to someone from OVO the credits I am getting so I don`t need to pay £120 a month, it was not easy. I still pay more than needed, I settled at £60, so I will end up asking for a refund again. 

It worked out £43 per month for the year, so I am not better off as they said I would, perhaps my credit goes to @Leo Moran ? :thinking::wink:

I know octopus offers a 5p rate which if I was not on this trial I would switch straight away. I agree that we should be getting the off peak rate, as @Transparent says there should not be any constrains. That might make it worthwhile for the rest of us too. 

I can see two different rates on my statement for the EV everywhere tariff there is a 16.71 and there is a 15.91, according to the plan in myOVO it is the latter. A bit of organisation is required in the office I feel.

 

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@Andras…..many thanks for your financial  contributions...may well be buying a new iPhone 12 Pro with some of it….

 

leo

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It's very thoughtful, just what I wanted.  😁

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So @Andras are you at a stage in this Trial where you now have idea as to what you’d like to see by way of a Time Of Use (TOU) Tariff?

Have you had a look at the TOU Discussion?

Economy-7 is a poor example of what can be done with TOU. Octopus have taken it a lot further… but they don’t have customers with hands-on experience of the relatively large storage possibilities that come with V2G.

If OVO were to offer a genuine variable pricing tariff for the 48 half-hour segments of the day, might that affect when you charge your Leaf?

What if that tariff offered variations in energy-mix as well as price?

What if that tariff offered you another time-slot where you could profitably export back to the grid? Would you welcome that, or would you be concerned about battery-life?

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I am sorry for the delay in answering @Transparent , I could not access my account for a while. I would definitely make use of a TOU tariff as my car stays at home 95% of the times, so I am flexible to have the car charged as it suits the grid.

I am also concerned about battery life, do you know if Kaluza have access to the SOH data? Perhaps it should be monitored or asked users to make notes of it?! I do and I did notice some degradation, but that might be from general wear?! 

I thought OVO only supplies renewable energy now, is that not correct?

 

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Agree with the discussion here. I have been now on the V2G trial sine June and it took three months to get the online account access. The V2G statements at best are high level and miss the details to validate the credit from the tariff. One of the conditions (understandable) at the time of trial was a single tariff for the duration fixed for a 12 month period. 

However, I see a couple of opportunities to engage the trialists better:

1). Create a similar statement to the energy usage for the V2G credit rather than a single bundled amount ( which appear as) 

Vehicle-to-Grid Export Credit

2). Identify the efficiency or (heat) loss on a monthly basis 

3). Easy to read layout a). electricity/gas usage b). V2G import and export calculation

 

I hope Kaulza team are interested in making this interface more user friendly.

 

@Ash_OVO  I was only offered the Better Energy Plan at the time of trial. Would it be possible to switch to EV everywhere for the V2G trial period (if that’s better tariff).

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@Andras, Kaluza are unable to view battery SOH, however, studies into battery degradation suggest exporting and charging, rather than batteries sitting idle is better the health of the battery

https://warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/clean_energy_stored

 

If you have concerns about your battery state of health, we would advise contacting your local Nissan dealership. 

 

@sylm_2000, thank you for your feedback and suggestions, I have forwarded these to the Kaluza team for review. With regards to your tariff, so long as you’re with OVO for the duration of the trial, you are allow to be on any single rate tariff. If you wish to upgrade to an EV everywhere plan, you can do so at any time via your online account.  

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@Ash_OVO  - thanks. I did contacted customer service via chat and understand I am on the cheapest tariff for now so would not recommend a switch.  

 

As a feedback, the process was easy, effective and quick (apart from a network disconnect as one of the agent was disconnected due to home Wi-Fi issue). 

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As a feedback, the process was easy, effective and quick (apart from a network disconnect as one of the agent was disconnected due to home Wi-Fi issue). 

 

I’m sorry to hear you experienced this issue. Bristol (where we’re located) has been experiencing a few power cuts over the last 24 hours, which may have had a hand in the lost connection. I’m glad to hear you sorted it. 

 

If you ever have any further questions, you can always find us here! :grin:

 

 

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Thanks @Ash_OVO , I am not too convinced, is there any info with regard to what is the best schedule. I mean is it better for the battery to rest for a few hours between charge and discharge or it is Ok to charge it straight after it had been discharged?

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Hi @Andras ,

I’m going to straight up admit that I’m probably nowhere near a world leading expert here, since the biggest batteries I usually maintain are just laptop batteries with a bunch of laptops. But since EV batteries are essentially giant supersized laptop batteries, I guess that’s close enough?

Now I also don’t know what the exact parameters are for the V2G Chargers, such as at what percentage the charger will permit exports, how fast it imports/exports etc. And I also don’t have permission to access your account as a forum volunteer, so I don’t know the exact details of your tariff or the way that your Nissan LEAF and V2G Charger behave together. But I can certainly try to give some general advice based on me managing a bunch of laptops in the past.

As mentioned previously, if you think the battery on your LEAF is draining too fast, it’s definitely worth having it checked out by your local dealer just to be safe. And sorry for the slow reply, this took me a good few hours to think through before writing this up. I definitely wanted to double check my facts first!

When it comes to laptop batteries however, it’s often advised that if you plan to store the laptop for a long time, to charge it up to around the 60% mark (roughly) rather than fill her up all the way. And if you plan to store it for a very long time, I think the advice is to recharge once every three/six months. I can’t quite remember the exact cycle, but it’s something along those lines. And then once you get it back out of storage, you’ll want to give the laptop a good recharge before firing it back up again. Letting it go right the way down to 0% for long periods is bad for the battery health in the long run, but the same applies to keeping it at 100% for too long. The best way to maintain a laptop battery is to basically use it normally, being mindful to follow general advice that comes in the user manual for it.

Based on this, I guess the easy answer is to treat the V2G Charger the same as any other charger and also treat the way it uses the battery as being similar to how the battery gets used while you’re driving. It’s probably not going to drain it much faster than you would normally see, but in a way I could argue that it might help to keep the battery healthy in the long run by effectively simulating “normal” use, especially during lockdowns.

And don’t forget that most people don’t tend to wait very long between pulling up at an EV Rapid Charger and plugging in to fill up the tank either! :wink:

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Thank you @Blastoise186 for your suggestions. I started the trial on 11 October 2019. The state of health of the battery improved from 90.48% (24 October 2019) to 92.47% (27 January 2020) then it started to decreased by 0.25-1.25% per month to 88.60% (15 November 2020). The car has done around 25K miles (2014 reg)

The biggest drop was during lockdown when the car was not driven. 2.5% decrease in couple of month. I am experimenting with different schedules and charge range. At the moment charging it is set at 25-30% to 90-95%, ready time is 8.30am.

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You’re welcome. Since I’ve never had experience with an EV myself, I can’t provide the most accurate advice, but I’m glad it helps either way.

However, I have read a few things about EV’s like the Nissan LEAF and Tesla’s over the years. But this is definitely a question that a fellow EV owner might be able to give some better insights on that I can. Regardless of how well you look after them, rechargeable batteries will eventually degrade and wear out over time. Taking good care of it will definitely slow that down however. Based on what you’ve mentioned, it sounds like the battery pack in your LEAF is doing fairly well overall for a six year old EV.

I think one of the best tips that helps with any kind of Lithium-Ion and/or Lithium-Polymer based rechargeable battery is to try to be somewhat consistent over the long term and avoid being tempted to set it to fill up the tank all the way to 100% with Long Range Mode unless you absolutely have to. If your car was sat on the drive for a long time during lockdown, I can see why that may have thrown it out of sync a bit, especially since it’s a completely sudden change in charging/discharging behaviour.

Certainly for the time being, I’d definitely recommend setting your LEAF to use Long Battery Life Mode rather than Long Range Mode if you’re not using it much, since this will likely help to keep the battery in better shape until you’re able to start going out more often.

Since you’ve been on the trial for about a year now though, I don’t see any harm in booking an appointment at your local Nissan dealer to have them give the battery a quick health check.

As for the schedule, I guess my answer there is to use whatever works best for your circumstances, since something that works for my collection of laptop batteries might not work well for a Nissan LEAF.

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is there any info with regard to what is the best schedule. I mean is it better for the battery to rest for a few hours between charge and discharge or it is Ok to charge it straight after it had been discharged?

 

This might be a good opportunity to get some community ‘powered’ advice on optimal battery charging.  

 

V2G trialists, let’s hear from you if you have found the optimal option here? 

 

@Jequinlan @IbrahimEV @sylm_2000 @NeilG @ArundaleP @D10hul @Mikeyoung @Stephen Bell  - again sorry for the bulk tag but I know some of you are happy to advise and don’t always see these threads without the email notification… 

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To be honest, the best way is just to let the unit do it own thing, thats what its designed to do ! The V2G puts little stress on the battery and actually helps by gently cycling allowing the BMS to allocate and balance cells, rather than stabbing it with high amounts of electric. think of it as filling up an audience. As for charge and discharge cycles, this really has no effect and in the winter I have found can actually be good at keeping the battery warm and a warm battery is a happy battery. 

I find maximum export results with the Leaf 62KW as the V2G never uses the full amount it can, when I use the Leaf 30 it has a lower export rate. 

Basically what I am getting at is the unit will only export so much so trying to force schedules on it will really undo all the work they are trying to achieve in supporting the grid and making it profitable for OVO. 

The next step that needs to happen is a Tarif that we can work on for the future as people are now fast approaching the end of the contracts, we are all eagerly awaiting this information. 

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@Andras - I share the same charging cycle (and limit) as you and assume similar specs of Nissan LEAF as well. I was measuring SOH earlier in the year and have not kept a good record on a monthly basis but your observation is correct smart charging does help improve the SOH of the EV battery. Sadly, like all batteries EV will continue to loose capacity as memory effect will finally lead to degradation. Having clocked almost 40k miles battery (on display) is solid and works as expected (with variation in winter/summer regarding range)

I have given up being fussed about SOH as I think in not so distant future someone will come up with business plan to convert these batteries to tesla style power vault for domestic use. They are excellent and will be great backup/storage for the residual capcity they’d offer.

 

That’s my 2 cents worth @Tim_OVO  :)

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During lockdown, as i am not travelling any further than a few miles (and therefore never need a full tank) i have turned OFF my scheduler. This way i let Kaluza manage it. This seems to charge depending on need either overnight or around 10am. It charges up to 80% and discharges between 4 and 11pm.

 

The SOH of my battery is 98% and hasn't dropped at all.

 

62kwh leaf.

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Thank you @Blastoise186 , @Tim_OVO , @D10hul , @sylm_2000 , @Jequinlan for sharing your experiences. 

@Jequinlan Its interesting that without setting a schedule it will only charge to 80%. In the app the 90-95% is the recommended range, not that it makes a huge difference with a 24 kW Leaf.

We might also see an opportunity for battery exchange at a reasonable price in a few years? @sylm_2000 

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