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I might trade in my Nissan Leaf but I need to understand cost saving of V2G - how can I figure out actual costs and savings?

  • 15 December 2020
  • 27 replies
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Hey all,

We’re considering a switch to the MG5 EV. No, it’s not as attractive or featureful as the Leaf but we’ve outgrown it in terms of interior/boot space and the MG is the only electric estate going - with greater range and of course cheaper.

But that last statement has got me wondering: Yes, it’s cheaper to buy/make payments on, but it doesn’t support V2G so we’d be losing out on that. Hence, what I’d really like to figure out is how much we’re actually saving through the V2G scheme. Obviously right now we’re using a lot more power than we otherwise would from the constant overnight charging, and with the V2G feed-in being delayed by a month it’s not totally straightforward to figure it out from our statements.

So, is there any way I can remove the feed-in *and* the additional power draw from the extra charging on our statements to figure out our actual savings/difference from not having V2G? Can OVO do it for me on request?

 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts on the matter!

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Best answer by Jequinlan 16 December 2020, 12:49

I am lucky enough to be on the trial and a long range leaf  this is yielding me approximately £90 per month on the (trial enhanced) rates for payback, while coronavirus is keeping my car firmly at home. If i took a non enhanced rate (say half) and normal use then i would still be looking at probably £250 a year ish.

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Hello @MaximumFish 

 

Welcome to the EV world!

I currently drive a Nissan Leaf and with a child, we need more room and looking at upgrading to the MG ZS EV next year and the bigger range will help too!

I hope I am reading this right but If you are worried about how much electricity you are using to run the car. No need to worry. It costs peanuts and you will barely notice the electricity cost go up. It may be £10-20 more depending on how much I suppose you drive? But think of it this way, that is £10-20 to run your car each month. 

You can find out more information about charging pricing etc via Pod point - https://pod-point.com/guides/vehicles/mg/2020/mg-5

You are looking average £7 to fully charge the car at home on a tariff of 14p/kwh and this gives you WLTP range of 215 miles. That’s a bargain! 

There are a lot of EV drivers here. I think we can all agree, we will never go back to an ICE car. ICE cars are expensive to run and maintain. I think you will be happy with your decision. 

 

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Appreciate the repy @NinjaGeek but we’ve had a Leaf for coming on for 3 years now (we got one of the 2.zero new model launch editions). We have no intention of going back to an ICE vehicle.

The reason for my query is because we’re part of the V2G trial and it *appears* to be working well for us (so much so that one month over the summer our energy bill was minus 6 quid!). I know the MG5 EV does not support bi-directional charging and we can’t afford to run two cars, so I’m trying to figure out whether the amount we “make” from our V2G feed-in offsets or indeed exceeds the difference in monthly PCP costs between the two models; with the MG being somewhat cheaper than what we’re paying for the Leaf right now.

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@MaximumFish Ah now the post makes more sense. I wasn’t aware you had a Leaf. 

Hmm good shout. If you have the 64Kw Leaf then you will be saving money charging there alone as I believe the battery is only 50kw in the MG5? But if you also include the V2G then you are saving more on the Leaf. Hmm this is definitely a good question. Might be worth waiting for more EV owners to join this thread or unless @Transparent can answer this

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Yeah my original post didn’t make a huge amount of sense I suppose. I just assumed that putting “V2G” in the title would make it obvious that we were on the trail and have a Leaf. We’ve got the 40kW for what it’s worth.

I’m thinking maybe I can look at the feed-in stats for a particular month in the Kaluza app, and then subtract that amount of kW/h from the amount drawn (plus a little extra for “leakage”). That might give me our actual power usage minus the additional draw from the extra charging, maybe…? :D

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Hi guys. I haven’t delved into the costs and refunds for the V2G Trial, I’m afraid. I only really get involved in a Topic if it uses SI Units :wink:

And, I thought you were signed up for the duration of the Trial anyway.

Kaluza only recruited half the number of participants required, so every bit of data they glean from you is really precious.

Userlevel 7

Nice post, @MaximumFish and good to see you, @NinjaGeek and @Transparent 

 

I think it’s worth getting some other Leaf owners to weigh in. You might not be alone at eying up more space vs costs, @Jequinlan @sylm_2000 @ArundaleP @Andras @D10hul @PeterR1947 (although you’ve recently bought a new Leaf have you not? 

 

From my knowledge, isn’t the average cost saving of the V2G £300 per year, plus the free charger?????? 

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I upgraded my Leaf from a 40kWh to a 63kWh e+ earlier this year, I missed out on the V2G trial with OVO although I’m currently waiting to see if I’m accepted on a Western Power trial  I’m envious of Leaf owners with V2G.

I’m not convinced that the MG has that much more room to want to change, certainly the leaf boot is huge, worth looking at some comparisons, try there:

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/mg/zs/108118/mg-zs-ev-vs-nissan-leaf

https://www.westwaynissan.co.uk/news/5-electric-cars-compared-to-the-nissan-leaf

 

Peter

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@MaximumFish from what I have experienced since January 2020 I would say that any financial gains from V2G alone is marginal (especially recently). If you have solar PV then there is a clear financial benefit in that you are paid a good rate for all export. 
If we were on a cheap off peak rate tariff (Octopus Go when we signed up to OVO) we would be better off overall (£1 V2G charger aside).

 

good luck with your decision 

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I am lucky enough to be on the trial and a long range leaf  this is yielding me approximately £90 per month on the (trial enhanced) rates for payback, while coronavirus is keeping my car firmly at home. If i took a non enhanced rate (say half) and normal use then i would still be looking at probably £250 a year ish.

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By the way if you combine my api extraction programes export for the api And trial data from the app export you can actually see where the electricity is really going.. in and out!!!

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Thanks for the replies, all!

@PeterR1947 Yes, the Leaf has a pretty big boot (though it was a big step down from the Octavia we had previously). However we’re looking at the MG5, not the ZS. It’s their new estate and the boot is much bigger - an extra 60-140L with the seats up, depending on how high you load it.

@Transparent It feels like it’s closing in on 2 years from when the trial started isn’t it? Some time mid next year? I think if we were to swap cars, by the time the new one arrived the trial would be pretty much over anyway.

@ArundaleP and @Jequinlan Thanks for the input. From the values/estimates you’ve given, my quick back-of-the-envelope says that we’d pretty much break even - assuming the Leaf is worth at least enough to clear off the remaining PCP. Having the car sat on the driveway pretty much 24/7 thanks to Covid has certainly helped with our feed-in gains, for sure. :thinking:

We’ve booked an out-of-curiosity test drive for tomorrow so I might go armed with a PCP settlement figure and see what’s what...

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@MaximumFish - like you I am on the V2G trial albeit with a 28kWH leaf and 4k Solar PV on the roof. I think there is some £ benefit from the trial but that shouldn’t sway your decision to choose a car. It is in the order of £200 to £400 per year plus a free smart charger.

Having said that, I have ordered e+Tekna 64kWH  which will be delivered in April 2021. I do not know how the trial will pan out in the future however I do hope OVO/Kaluza would like to take advantage of the deployment and support the installation making it attractive for the users to keep using the V2G charger. I am buying the EV under employment car scheme with significant BiK benefit. Our decision was not based on V2G trial however with the safety features (pro Pilot parking and drive) makes the latest leaf a very good choice. Also I have a 4x4 (hybrid) which is rarely used so boot space is not an issue for me. 

I would say your personal circumstances will be more important on what car you choose next however you may wish to consider your commitment to the trial and obligations you signed to when you were accepted for the trial.

 

Userlevel 7

@MaximumFish can you let us know how the test drive was?

 

Are you happy if I assign @sylm_2000’s reply as the ‘best answer’, I think this is a well rounded overview that will help others thinking of a change…. :leaves:

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I think @Jequinlan gave the closest answer to what I was after so I’ve marked that as best.

The test drive went really well. I honestly wasn’t expecting much because it’s just a rebadged Chinese car, but it exceeded those expectations. Looks much better in the flesh than in pictures, accelerated well, handled well (no better or worse than the Leaf at least), and the missus was very happy with the amount of space available. In fact she kept mentioning how the middle seat doesn’t have the hump in the footwell that the Leaf does.

I would miss the extra safety features that come with the Leaf, like the blindspot monitor, assisted cruise control, and braking warnings, but otherwise it was a perfectly competent car.

They also offered way more than I was expecting for the trade-in. Haven’t pulled the trigger yet, but even without the V2G tarrif we’d be saving money, so we’re seriously tempted. Could we still keep the V2G charger if we no longer have the car for it? I’m *assuming* that at some point, when CCS supports bi-directional charging, they will be upgradable?

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I don’t think you can assume that the existing Indra V2G charger might ever be upgradable to operate a CSS connection. These are quite different.

Moreover a high proportion of the internal design relates to the particular timings and safety features of the CHAdeMO specification. There isn’t an agreed spec for a bi-directional CSS yet, and interested parties could yet implement different “standards” to achieve it.

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As a guess, I would say that half of the export payments pay for the electricity import, so the other half is actually profit. It should not be a big factor in your decision. 

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I’m on the V2G trial with the 40kwh Leaf.   The only reason I’d switch cars (for as long as the credits keep rolling in) is for a 62kwh Leaf.  I’m currently benefiting by around £50 (profit) a month and this is with usage.  Were I to have a larger battery, the gain would be more as the discrepancy between cost to charge per kwh (in particular overnight) vs export credit is significant.   I am not on the EV Everywhere tariff and just pay for the Polar card myself and that works out much better.

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I've had my Leaf since December and my charger will be fitted in March. I'll be glad when I stop freezing with the granny charger through the window!

It's already saving me so much money: a full charge costs about £4 and the same distance would have cost around £20 in my ICE.

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Can I quickly check, @Gingernut49 - are you getting a new Vehicle to Grid charger fitted in March? 

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No, just their regular charger. My house is too small for solar panels.

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I don’t understand the reference to solar panels @Gingernut49 

There is no requirement to have any on-site renewable generation in order to have a V2G charger. In fact, it complicates the grid-connection certification process because you could exceed the 16A/phase limit if the panels and EV exported simultaneously.

Could you please fill out your Forum Profile so we can see roughly where you live?

V2G chargers are an important part of the future Grid Balancing strategy required by the UK, regardless of whether you have PV Solar Panels. They can enable the EV to absorb over-supply of renewable energy from the regional Distribution Grid and store it until required.

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I've ordered a ProjectEV charger through the Ovo discount scheme. I don't know all the terminology yet.

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Should I order the Smart Pro one instead? They weren't available when I ordered.

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Hi @Gingernut49 ,

For the most part, any charger from a reputable vendor should do the job nicely, as long as it’s compatible with your EV and suits your needs. If you’d like to switch your order, feel free to go with what you’re happy with. I think it’s mainly personal preference otherwise.

Perhaps @NinjaGeek and @Jequinlan might have some advice too.

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Sorry @Gingernut49 - I think @Blastoise186 has understood the technical part of the question, but not the implications which follow:

First, have a look at a website like Zap Map where you can see photos of the commonly-fitted EV chargers.

These are one-way / charge-only. You pay for the electricity at whatever rate you sign up for and then put it into your Leaf.

The Vehicle-to-Grid concept is quite different because you can store energy in your battery when it’s cheap, but re-sell it back to the Distribution Grid when it’s in most demand. You then share the profit with the company providing the technology to achieve this.

 

Initially you don’t need any charger at all. So there’s no pressure on you to make a quick decision.

Have a look at what I wrote over here last week about having an electrician fit an external 32A socket.

 

None of the charger systems being offered to the public yet are operating as they eventually could. That’s because the cost-structure which underpins the electricity supply in the UK is going to change. So too will the contracts offered by the Energy Suppliers. We will have variable-rate Time Of Use tariffs whereby the cost can vary each half-hour.

I’m suggesting you spend a while looking at the comments from others with EVs, both here on this Forum and elsewhere.

Don’t simply “buy” a charger under the current HMG scheme because you were offered a “good deal”. You only get one grant to have a charger installed.

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