Solved

How long is the Vehicle to Grid (V2G) trial running for? Do you know if the new Nissan Airya will have a bi-directional CCS charge port? Kaluza AMA


Userlevel 3
Badge

This is billed as a two-year trial.  Given that some people have had their V2G for over a year and many are yet to be installed, what marks the start of the two years?  Do we all get two years individually or is there some future cutoff for everyone?

  1. If the latter, when is that?
  2. What happens afterwards?  We know we can “buy” the charger for £1 but will the app still work?  Will V2G as a concept, die?  etc etc…

We hear CCS will go bi-directional at some point.  Are there any plans to test that?

The new Nissan Airya will have a CCS charge port but our sources claim the connector will be bi-directional.  (Nissan, after all, virtually invented the V2X concept).  Do you have any inside information about that?

Many thanks,

Stephen and Sheila of the Electric Automobile Association.  (ElectrAA)   

*edited by mod*

icon

Best answer by Tim_OVO 23 November 2020, 15:26

Hi @Stephen Bell @Jequinlan @MrPuds - I have the latest:

 

We’ve confirmed that the 2 year trial period for the V2G charger started when your V2G unit was installed. Once you get to the end of your two years, you will be given the chance to buy the charger for £0.01, or we can remove it for you. The charger will continue to work in the same way after your two years if you take ownership of it: we plan to continue supporting the app until at least Jan 2023.

 

We hope that the majority of members will stay with OVO and our V2G propositions beyond the end of their 2 year trial, so that we can continue providing support to the grid together. 

 

There have also been some questions about V2G as a concept and how OVO plans to develop this in the future. There are some open questions about future V2G technology, particularly around support for CCS V2G. We’re following this as it evolves to inform our future V2G offering.

View original

16 replies

Userlevel 7

Here’s our penultimate question, and therefore our penultimate answer, from our Kaluza/EV experts, Josh and Fionn:

 

Hi @Stephen Bell 

 

Great question. In terms of the trial length, Fionn is researching the answer with some of our internal teams to ensure we give you as full and accurate response as we can. He will come back to you as soon as he has an answer.

 

On the topic of the bi-directionally of the CCS charge port, unfortunately we have no information on this other than what has been released to the market by Nissan.

 

Thanks,

Josh

Userlevel 7
Badge +2

@Tim_OVO  any news?

Userlevel 7

Hi @Stephen Bell @Jequinlan,

 

We’ll have something to share with you on this next week. Let’s put this topic on pause, I’ll be back just like Arnold. :muscle:

Userlevel 3
Badge

Looking forward to knowing the answer to this.

 

Cheers,

Stephen.

Userlevel 5
Badge

That is an interesting question. I learned a bit about the background of V2G - basically it was developed by Nissan as V2H for the Japanese market struggling from the effects of the tsunami in 2011. That was “easy”, because the Leaf was new, and Nissan was still in charge of the Chademo standard. V2G was not the reason for the development. 

I don’t think the same applies for the Ariya. It will have Chademo in Japan, but CCS2 in Europe. So if Nissan again focuses on the domestic market, V2G may only work via Chademo, and not in European models. 

Thomas

Userlevel 7

Hi @Stephen Bell @Jequinlan @MrPuds - I have the latest:

 

We’ve confirmed that the 2 year trial period for the V2G charger started when your V2G unit was installed. Once you get to the end of your two years, you will be given the chance to buy the charger for £0.01, or we can remove it for you. The charger will continue to work in the same way after your two years if you take ownership of it: we plan to continue supporting the app until at least Jan 2023.

 

We hope that the majority of members will stay with OVO and our V2G propositions beyond the end of their 2 year trial, so that we can continue providing support to the grid together. 

 

There have also been some questions about V2G as a concept and how OVO plans to develop this in the future. There are some open questions about future V2G technology, particularly around support for CCS V2G. We’re following this as it evolves to inform our future V2G offering.

Userlevel 5
Badge

Hello Tim

It is great to hear that the V2G charger will still be supported, and I appreciate that the details are still uncertain (although the first customers must be only months away from it?). 

For me, moving to a real time tariff is essential, and it will determine my choice of supplier and tariff. At the moment, OVO does not have a real time tariff, and I think that is quite a gap given the otherwise progressive approach from OVO. There is a competitor that offers real time tariff and export renumeration, although I need to look at the numbers to see whether they are competitive with the current offer. 

Actually, it would be really nice to a have a tool that could simulate this. We have enough data now, so what is the best tariff for my purpose? While I have the tools to run my own estimates, I guess most users would needs some support with that decision. 

MrPuds

Userlevel 7

Actually, it would be really nice to a have a tool that could simulate this. We have enough data now, so what is the best tariff for my purpose? While I have the tools to run my own estimates, I guess most users would needs some support with that decision. 

 

You’re joining the growing ranks of members keen for TOU tariffs, @MrPuds - see this discussion thread:

 

 

Userlevel 7
Badge +2

Hello Tim

It is great to hear that the V2G charger will still be supported, and I appreciate that the details are still uncertain (although the first customers must be only months away from it?). 

For me, moving to a real time tariff is essential, and it will determine my choice of supplier and tariff. At the moment, OVO does not have a real time tariff, and I think that is quite a gap given the otherwise progressive approach from OVO. There is a competitor that offers real time tariff and export renumeration, although I need to look at the numbers to see whether they are competitive with the current offer. 

Actually, it would be really nice to a have a tool that could simulate this. We have enough data now, so what is the best tariff for my purpose? While I have the tools to run my own estimates, I guess most users would needs some support with that decision. 

MrPuds

 

@MrPuds I am actually working on a tool to compare TOU data combined with export from API ! :)

Userlevel 5

Hello all...sorry I haven’t spoken for a while but nothing much happening during lock down. The V2G unit has performed perfectly apart from one “trip” last month which may have been caused by a local power surge…..it’s run perfectly since...though my exports have dropped a bit.

 

So my sell by date is fast approaching on 26th July when the trial comes to an end and I’m going to continue with the trial as long as you want me to export electricity….of course I have to look at the best value and if the exports drop off then it may be more viable to switch back to an Economy 7 tariff and download cheap during the night and save during the day when it’s expensive…..and it’s in that light I have a thought.

 

The original concept from Nissan was not V2G but V2H….Vehicle to home and I thought perhaps I can do the same in case there’s a black out...but Northern Electric understandably won’t allow it for safety reasons, should an engineer be working on the external side. But here’s where it’s viable.

 

My installation is unusual in that I have two separate fuse boxes and two chargers on different systems. The original charger is in the garage supplied by a cable from the original fuse box in the house. The Kaluza charger is also in the garage fed from the second fuse box in the house which is then connected to The Mains before the first fuse box. My house is due a new rewire (by date only, still in very good condition)…..so why not keep the original wiring on which the 1st charger is and install a second re wire running off the Kaluza charger, disconnected from the main grid. I can plug both chargers into the car at the same time, the Type 3 and the Chademo with a timer switch between them. I can then run the house on mains electricity between midnight and 7 at cheap rate including charging the car. I can then run the house during the day purely on the electricity in the car downloaded at cheap rate overnight and if I disconnect the vehicle to use it during the day, the system automatically defaults back to the grid and reverts to the original timing when reconnected.

 

If the V2G is not going anywhere then perhaps V2H may be the next best option….and why waste a fully functioning V2G charger, may as well get my money’s worth out of it.

 

I’d be interested in other peoples views @Tim_OVO , @aaronr, @Transparent.

 

 

Userlevel 7

Good to hear from you, @Leo Moran and thanks for the update. 

 

I’m just going to tag a few more V2G’ers to see what they think about this:

 

The original concept from Nissan was not V2G but V2H….Vehicle to home and I thought perhaps I can do the same in case there’s a black out...but Northern Electric understandably won’t allow it for safety reasons, should an engineer be working on the external side. But here’s where it’s viable.

 

My installation is unusual in that I have two separate fuse boxes and two chargers on different systems. The original charger is in the garage supplied by a cable from the original fuse box in the house. The Kaluza charger is also in the garage fed from the second fuse box in the house which is then connected to The Mains before the first fuse box. My house is due a new rewire (by date only, still in very good condition)…..so why not keep the original wiring on which the 1st charger is and install a second re wire running off the Kaluza charger, disconnected from the main grid. I can plug both chargers into the car at the same time, the Type 3 and the Chademo with a timer switch between them. I can then run the house on mains electricity between midnight and 7 at cheap rate including charging the car. I can then run the house during the day purely on the electricity in the car downloaded at cheap rate overnight and if I disconnect the vehicle to use it during the day, the system automatically defaults back to the grid and reverts to the original timing when reconnected.

 

@Jequinlan @MrPuds @sylm_2000 @ArundaleP - what do we think: 2 charges clearly the best option here? 

Userlevel 7
Badge +2

So, I don’t know how your car works, but my leaf disables the Type 2 when a CHADEMO is plugged in (even though physically it takes them both as plugs.) I believe this is a safety design.  In theory it sounds like you are essentially wanting to run the car as the “shared battery” on the 2 lines, which makes sense, but I don’t have option in my car to leave both in and working. I can do similar by switching out manually the chargers, and tried similar, but got bored real quick

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

Yeah, this sounds like it’s done as a safety feature. Not least to prevent you from attempting to charge the vehicle via both Type 2 and CHAdeMO at the same time under any circumstances. Which is probably something you don’t want to do anyway, not least you face the consequences...

Userlevel 6
Badge +1

It is now almost a month since I switch to 62kWH Nissan leaf the average export is 10kwH per day with very limited use of the car.

It is pretty low for the battery size and barely provides the incentive with the OvO tariff I am on currently which is lowed with solar PV array in my case.

I am hoping future Kaluza upgrades may support V2H or TOU flexibility to retain an otherwise fantastic smart charger. When it works, it is great except when it doesn’t :)

 

Agree with @Jequinlan I don’t think both chargers can be used together.

Userlevel 7
Badge +4

The more I think about it, the more that this restriction begins to really make sense.

CHAdeMO is usually used for Mode 4 DC Rapid Charging stuff, while Type 2 is usually used for Slow/Fast Mode 3 (alternatively Mode 1 Slow or Mode 2 Slow in a pinch) AC Charging stuff. Mixing the two together at once is a really bad idea. Obviously, it’s perfectly fine to have both options available on your EV of course. Just as long as you’ve only got one plugged in at a time.

My understanding is that most EV’s will use their onboard charger to handle Modes 1 to 3 for the most part and that acts like a proxy which sits in front of the battery, while Mode 4 uses the charging station for that purpose and is otherwise connected directly to the vehicle battery, bypassing the onboard charger.

At least, I hope I've got that right! Corrections welcomed

Userlevel 5

Thanks everyone for the contributions…

I was aware you couldn’t charge both at the same time for obvious reasons but I didn’t know that one plug cancels out the other one, even though it’s switched so only one can be charged at a time and it’s impossible to charge both. It was just a thought and looking for negative advice as well as positive advice which was much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

Reply